Film storage question

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by jaehoppa, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. jaehoppa

    jaehoppa Member

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    I keep my color neg films in the freezer. Loose rolls with plastic wrapper inside ziplock bags and 5-roll packs as is. However last night, the freezer had been cracked open a little all night and frost formed on the outside the boxes. Some of them melted a little and made the boxes a little soggy. For now I have put them in ziploc bags with a bunch of silica gel. Would the rolls inside the boxes be ok? Should I thaw them completely before re-freezing them?

    Thanks.
     
  2. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

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    Film, unlike meat or ice cream, has no moisture to form ice crystals. Scrape the frost off of the boxes and put the film back in the freezer. Only the box is being affected. The film is sealed.
     
  3. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    +1 What Brian said is correct.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    jaehoppa

    jaehoppa Member

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    thank you sir!
     
  5. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Do we assume correctly that this is 120 film? I ask, because if this is 35mm film, the plastic canisters that the film cassettes come in aren't always impervious to moisture. If the film is 35mm, I would discard the now moisture soaked boxes and put the film and canisters into ziplock bags.
     
  6. trendland

    trendland Member

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    Well - Ian from my point of view 135 films should be freezed in original canisters.120 in the same way.
    The question is on 4x5 I can't remember
    because I still have no 4x5 / 5x7 camera.
    Are the films inside the box in plastic like
    photographic papers - of cause they are.
    But is the plastic folder closed?

    with regards
     
  7. trendland

    trendland Member

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    Oh sorry Matt I noticed this reply as it comes from Ian Grand.
    Wonder - perhaps I need new glasses.
    Just remember Ian posted yesterday at last - when I was offline.
    What ever sorry sorry sorry.
    But this could be a problem to moisture
    and more and more dew points from frezers.
    But they should be stored inside in airtight plastic ? (Sheed films)

    with regards Matt
     
  8. trendland

    trendland Member

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    Ähm in addition 135 plastic canisters should be indeed airthight Matt.
    NOT easy to imagine but in freeze condition you have a negative pressure
    airtight. Over pressure works not so good. Can't find the correct term :
    "Tropic Proof "?
    So let us hope they are a bit from all:D.

    with regards
     
  9. Minoltafan2904

    Minoltafan2904 Member

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    If it's going to be stored less than 6 months : Fridge
    More than 6 months : Freezer
    Agree on putting the boxes in ziploc bags.
     
  10. Chris Livsey

    Chris Livsey Member

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    Your 5 roll packs should be in ziplock type bags, Ilford advise:-

    Paper and film may either be refrigerated or frozen but should first be sealed in plastic bags for protection. Products should be allowed to return to room temperature before opening otherwise condensation will cause damage. Avoid repeated thawing and freezing of films.

    That I'm afraid is not correct, film varies in moisture content but it is around 3% and the behaviour of the relative humidity equilibrium is regrettably rather complex, as it affects the accelerated storage tests performed on film it has been extensively studied. Whilst ice crystal formation is not an issue the Relative Humidity (RH) and its equilibrium is
    The small scale storage advice is not surprisingly in line with that of Ilford but it is important that the humidity is in equilibrium before storage as otherwise the glass transition temperature (Tg) of the gelatin may be exceeded and the emulsion layer be physically damaged, this really only kicks in when the normal room exceeds 60% RH.
    MOISTURE RELATIONSHIPS OF PHOTOGRAPHIC FILM
    JAIC 1997, Volume 36, Number 3, Article 2 (pp. 193 to 206)

    Without robust data on the sealing and porosity of the various plastic canisters in use to store film (35mm) an outer sealed plastic bag would be a wise precaution as Ilford advise.
     
  11. trendland

    trendland Member

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    If I understand correct your advice is to freeze films (ever) in original UNOPENED
    canisters.
    Never the less one can use plastic backs.
    But the last mentioned is more to protect
    the nice (paper/carton) package of some films ?

    with regards
     
  12. Chris Livsey

    Chris Livsey Member

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    The principle is not to preserve the nice packaging by sealing but to preserve the nice film :D

    The main issue is the relative humidity that can affect the emulsion, to stabilise that the package must be sealed, (and at a "reasonable" room RH when sealed) Ziplock is suitable, so the film is not exposed to the environment within the storage . The film canisters are probably/may be sufficient but as there are so many types and porosity is not quoted it is easier and safer to seal them.
    The OP very well described the RH effect on the packaging, the goal is to prevent the film suffering the same fate.
    If you read the article quoted, which I admit is heavy going, you will note that the times to equilibrium of the moisture content (RH) vary with temperature so any problems may take months to become apparent, and BTW it's not my advice it's the advice of much more experienced and clever photographic emulsion engineers than I at both Ilford and Kodak (although Kodak make it difficult to access much of their useful technical data these days, using Kodak as a generic term as I suspect the various parts are not working as closely together as they should and responsibility seems uncertain for much archive material as they are split into many separate corporate parts)
     
  13. trendland

    trendland Member

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    Oh thanks - I did not expect such kind
    of "easy english" especially for me.:angel:..
    But never mind Chris - if I can finish the
    translation of your reply within one week
    my next step should be to complete some forms and start examination to
    "cambridge certificate" and finishing it this summer:wink:...
    Air humity should be the key off all issues
    with freezing film.
    From the point of the freezer and from the region you freeze films.

    In southern california your problems are less. But beware to fill your plastic backs
    with films inside tropical rainforests:D...

    with regards
     
  14. Minoltafan2904

    Minoltafan2904 Member

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    I have to store my film in the fridge, as daytime temps during summer in my house can get up to 30c, and i don't remember where but i read Kodak recomends that film should be kept at 14c or cooler.
     
  15. trendland

    trendland Member

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    Storage of film within expired dates to temperature less 14 degree celsius is not
    so bad (as an Idea).
    Proffessional films needs less than 8 degree C - hope I remember it correct.

    But never mind - it is not the fact to have
    some degree more or less - it is just in regard of expired dates.
    Storage of your films at 15,7 degree C is also OK if you shoot your films 14 month
    before your films expired date.
    But beware of storage at 56 degree C at summer just to some hours!

    with regards
     
  16. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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  17. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Thanks Matt