Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

Discussion in 'Industry News' started by Sean, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. pbromaghin

    pbromaghin Subscriber

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    Nah, that's ok. I must be misremembering it.
     
  2. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Thank you.
    "private label" was the search term that eluded me.
    I think I tried every other possibility....
     
  3. Arctic amateur

    Arctic amateur Subscriber

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    You're welcome. I tried many search terms too.
     
  4. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Subscriber

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    Fuji, Kodak, Ilford (harmon), and now Ferrannia are the folks who actually make film under their own name. Agfa (Belgium) does sell and perhaps made some "industrial" films like AviPhot, which are packaged by others. Inoviscoat does "contract" coating. Filmotec.de may or may not coat their products, but they concentrate on Cine Film in any case. Adox.de has some coating machinery, but it is not clear if they have actually coated their films or have it made for them.

    No one is sure what if anything is happening in the Former Soviet union countries or China.

    from the list, it is clear that Ferrannia is a bright light of hope.
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Carestream in Colorado also does toll coating.

    PE
     
  6. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Subscriber

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    Yes, I understand that they are who now has the contract for "Kodak" branded colour paper. they are the former Medical x-ray division of Kodak and they probably don't sell anywhere near historic quantities of X-ray film these days.

    there may be others in the "toll" business. I wonder for example what happened to the facility in France who used to make some Agfa brand paper. (although I would give 99.9% odds that it is no longer making anything with light sensitive silver in it.
     
  7. Nzoomed

    Nzoomed Member

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    Thats a shame, it was a good film stock albeit a little grainy.

    I do remember saying they were trying to make it last by restricting the order quantity or something.
    I think they want to keep the remainder for super8 as long as possible.

    Hopefully AGFA restarts production someday.
    Such a nice film.
     
  8. FilmCurlCom

    FilmCurlCom Subscriber

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    Yeah, they did say that indeed. On the german version of the old website (can't currently find any link to any English version) they say the following products won't be made anymore:
    - #2202 - Wittner Chrome 200D 16mm 2R 38m/125ft
    - #2203 - Wittner Chrome 200D 16mm 2R 72m/250ft
    - #5102 - Wittner Chrome 200D Double 8 30m/100ft
    - #5302 - Wittner Chrome 200D DS8 30m/100ft
    - #1200-60 - Wittner Chrome 200D Super 8 Bulk 60m/200ft
    - #3016 - Wittner Chrome 200D 135-36 Slide Film
    http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de/neu/
     
  9. Berri

    Berri Member

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    According to their website they can produce emulsions, not just coat films.
     
  10. FilmCurlCom

    FilmCurlCom Subscriber

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    Now that Photrio is up and running (yeah!) I'd like to come back to my question from 9 days ago that has not been answered yet (I posted it well before Apug went down).
    Dave, could you please gives some details on what "less capable now than in 2015" means? You said you'd try to get feedback from Italy but so far I have seen none.
     
  11. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Subscriber

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    They did plan to use the existing setup to make the "reward" batch using existing raw materials, from the last batches made before the plant closed. Possibly using machines still in place in the old buildings. they have had to relocate equipment, which means it is packed away and will need refurbishing and re installation in the LRF building. the old buildings are now gone!

    The new work-flow is apparently being worked out using the P30 as a test subject.
     
  12. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

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    We've decided to hold this "less capable" post for Kickstarter Backers (and also our site of course) because it's most relevant to Backers.

    The text is currently being bounced back and forth to ensure accuracy - but as usual there are things happening behind the scenes whose outcome could change the nature of the post. And it's August in Europe.
     
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  14. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

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    Yes, sorry - I could not reply to anything for several days. See my other reply to this request.
     
  15. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

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    This is certainly a part of the issue, yes.
     
  16. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

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    Thanks for the recap - and all the truth.
     
  17. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

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    There is a really big difference between Brands and Manufacturers.
    The only truly self-contained, end-to-end manufacturer in the world right now is Fuji. Kodak and Ilford are close, but neither manufactures their own base so that technically rules them out.
    All the rest (including FILM Ferrania at this point in time) rely on products or services from each other to produce their branded products.
    And several of the brands you mentioned just buy fully finished products from someone else and put their brand on the box.

    We have the potential in the long-term of being entirely self-contained - but the investment required, especially to put base casting online, is out of reach for some time yet - unless, as I've said before, some angel investor decides that apps are boring and turns their attention to manufacturing real stuff. That would speed things up a good bit, but we're not relying on it in any way. We are forging ahead, despite whatever criticism we receive, to stay alive and grow and eventually reach the point of self-sufficiency.
     
  18. twelvetone12

    twelvetone12 Subscriber

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    I don't want to bash Ferrania or sound negative or anything, but I would just like to have a clear view of what is going on, and I really don't want to sound harsh.
    When I participated to the kickstarter I knew well it was to purchase the machinery, but the same campaign made it also sound that the color film was kind "around the corner" - you could make a batch in 2015 and after restructuring it would be possible to go on production in a somewhat timely fashion. It turns out it is not the case - and please don't get me wrong, this is not a critique, complex industrial processes are complex - and probably it will not be ready anytime soon. But I wish the kickstarter made that clearer - if the 2015 window closes, that's it: color film is going to be a long-term project, with years on the making. The fact that much of the communication stressed that Ferrania had no interest in BW film somewhat reinforced the idea that color would be ready more or less soon.
    Please know that I'm more than happy that you achieved P30 right now (and I'm happy to have ordered it), but I think you owe us backers at least the complete explanation - I feel the 2015 deadline was much more precarious than depicted, and the road to color material was much much more steep than described.
    I have no problem i waiting knowing that the investment on kicstarter is being put to a good fruit, even if it will be more years till color film, if this is what it takes to create for you a sustainable business. But I feel this stance should be completely cleared from your part.
     
  19. mshchem

    mshchem Member

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    Bill Gates are you listening???
     
  20. bvy

    bvy Subscriber

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    Not wanting to stir the pot, but rather hoping the feedback will prove useful for quality control purposes. I also noticed some scratches on the film. I might have guessed they were from the camera or cassette, but as I explained in another thread, something with the cassette caused my camera to auto-rewind on frame 21, and I didn't try to reshoot. Rather I developed the entire roll as is. Still, one or two scratches ran the entire length of the film -- through the unexposed, unspooled portion, all the way off the cut end inside the cassette. They're not egregious, but they are there. Just FYI...
     
  21. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    FYI, Kodak had a huge backlog of support and if it has not been all used up, they are still self contained.

    PE
     
  22. FilmCurlCom

    FilmCurlCom Subscriber

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    Don't worry, thanks for replying now.

    I have shot another roll with the same camera and a third one with a different camera (my main camera).
    Am currently away on vacation but when I'm back I will develop both films and check for scratches.
    I hardly believe the first camera scratches film (but who knows). However, I am 100% sure the second one (my main camera) did never scratch any film before.
    I will let you know once I am back what the results look like.
     
  23. jogr

    jogr Member

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    Another technical question relating to the Kodak films.
    In one of the films they installed a new casting wheel. It was humongus! Around 10m high.
    Is Ferranias base casting equipment on that scale and can you shoehorne it in the LRF building, or is the plan to build a new annex when you have to move it from where it is now.

    /Johan