110/16mm Camera Image Quality

Patrick Robert James · Jul 2, 2022

Some people just take themselves too siriusly.

This is the funnest thread on Photrio with the hippest dudes and dudettes.

I've been thinking about getting another 110 to add to my Rollei E110 and Ektamax? Can't remember the name of the Kodak. whatever the best one was. Lol. Need to get that one out and put a roll through it. Have some fun... I've been planning on setting up the camera scan stuff too since I have a bunch of stuff to do. Perfect for the small negs. My Nikon scanner just doesn't do justice to the small negs.

Cholentpot · Jul 3, 2022

Patrick Robert James said:
Some people just take themselves too siriusly.

This is the funnest thread on Photrio with the hippest dudes and dudettes.

I've been thinking about getting another 110 to add to my Rollei E110 and Ektamax? Can't remember the name of the Kodak. whatever the best one was. Lol. Need to get that one out and put a roll through it. Have some fun... I've been planning on setting up the camera scan stuff too since I have a bunch of stuff to do. Perfect for the small negs. My Nikon scanner just doesn't do justice to the small negs.

Instamatic 60.

I've not used mine much since the battery is an issue.

MattKing · Jul 3, 2022

There is also the adjustable aperture manual exposure Ektamatic, I think.

ciniframe · Jul 3, 2022

I think the Kodak Ektramax with the 25mm f1.9 lens had a guide on the bottom of the camera with exposure suggestions. Don’t think it had a rangefinder so focusing was by symbols. Bottom shutter speed was1/30.

ciniframe · Jul 3, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Actually I think that the 110 cameras I used were never low quality cameras and when I had enlargement made the enlargements were always high quality.

My beef with 110 was that there were no truly manual mechanical cameras, with full manual control even without the meter. Now Hess and others have proved that is not necessarily a barrier to good pictures. And, ill admit that for me it is more a mental barrier than a real block.
But still, it’s hard for me to get past It, I just like full manual cameras. And of the hundreds of models of 110 cameras throughout the years not even one was built like that.

grain elevator · Jul 3, 2022

I'm really really tempted to go down this rabbit hole! What's holding me back is that I would want to print optically, and getting a short fl enlarger lens and a suitable negative stage is difficult/expensive-ish...

Cholentpot · Jul 3, 2022

grain elevator said:
I'm really really tempted to go down this rabbit hole! What's holding me back is that I would want to print optically, and getting a short fl enlarger lens and a suitable negative stage is difficult/expensive-ish...

I lucked out on an abandoned darkroom in a friends house. He wanted to get rid of it wholesale and I took him up on it. I now have all the necessary equipment to develop and print 16mm/110 aside from the lens. I've read of people using the 50mm to enlarge 110. I'm no expert on darkroom printing though.

xkaes · Jul 3, 2022

Cholentpot said:
Instamatic 60.

Nice, but no match for the EKTRAMAX.

(1978-1981) According to many, this is the top of the line Kodak 110 -- despite not have any automatic exposure features! Instead, it has five, mechanical, shutter speeds from 1/30 - 1/350 that are set by the film cassette speed (OK, I guess you could call that an automatic exposure feature), in combination with manually selected "weather" symbols on the top of the camera -- which also sets the f-stop (f8, f4, or f1.9) and the flash. This was Kodak's most versatile pocket camera -- equal to almost any photo situation, yet small enough to fit in your pocket. The lens is extraordinary -- a super-fast 25mm (f1.9) four-element lens. It was one of the speed-demons of the submini world. Wide open OR stopped down, it can produce negatives with edge-to-edge sharpness. One reason is that this Kodak lens is designed with an aspheric element -- a design usually limited to expensive lenses. The viewfinder is pretty amazing for a 110 pocket camera. It's large, bright and displays 110% of the picture area, which is outlined by a projected reticle with parallax correction. Focusing aids and exposure data are also clearly visible at all times. You can focus and adjust the camera without taking it from your eye. The tiny integral flash, using two AAA batteries, has an effective range up to 20 feet with ASA 400 film. It recycles in an astonishingly brief two seconds with fresh batteries. In many ways this "can-do" camera from Kodak is a joy to handle. The shutter release is firm and precise. The smoothly operating focus wheel fits nicely under your fingertip. And there's a sliding lens/viewfinder cover you can't misplace. In use, you only need to focus from infinity to four feet, using a sliding lever (with distance in feet and meters), and then select one of four "weather" symbols -- which changes the shutter speed, f-stop, and flash, in combination. For ISO 100 film, the * setting (SUNNY) gives you 1/175 at f8. The EX setting (EXTRA EXPOSURE) gives you 1/125 at f4. The LX setting (LONG EXPOSURE) gives you 1/100 at f1.9. The Z setting (FLASH) gives you 1/30 at f1.9 AND fires the flash. Using ISO 400 speed film applies the same f-stops, and it increases the shutter speed -- but the manual is unclear as to what extent.

xkaes · Jul 3, 2022

Cholentpot said:
I've read of people using the 50mm to enlarge 110. I'm no expert on darkroom printing though.

You can use a 50mm lens to make 110/16mm enlargements, and the results should be as best as the format can offer, since you are only using the central section of the enlarging lens. But if you want to make a large enlargement, you'll have to get the enlarger head very high up the column. A more reasonable enlarging lens would be a 25mm or 28mm -- and these are typically less expensive than 50mm enlarging lenses.

xkaes · Jul 3, 2022

grain elevator said:
I'm really really tempted to go down this rabbit hole! What's holding me back is that I would want to print optically, and getting a short fl enlarger lens and a suitable negative stage is difficult/expensive-ish...

For 110 enlarging, you don't need a big enlarger. There were many made for 16mm/110 enlarging, that are very small, light and inexpensive. And if you already have an enlarger, it's easy to make a 16mm/110 negative mask.

http://www.subclub.org/darkroom/enlarge.htm

Cholentpot · Jul 3, 2022

xkaes said:
Nice, but no match for the EKTRAMAX.

(1978-1981) According to many, this is the top of the line Kodak 110 -- despite not have any automatic exposure features! Instead, it has five, mechanical, shutter speeds from 1/30 - 1/350 that are set by the film cassette speed (OK, I guess you could call that an automatic exposure feature), in combination with manually selected "weather" symbols on the top of the camera -- which also sets the f-stop (f8, f4, or f1.9) and the flash. This was Kodak's most versatile pocket camera -- equal to almost any photo situation, yet small enough to fit in your pocket. The lens is extraordinary -- a super-fast 25mm (f1.9) four-element lens. It was one of the speed-demons of the submini world. Wide open OR stopped down, it can produce negatives with edge-to-edge sharpness. One reason is that this Kodak lens is designed with an aspheric element -- a design usually limited to expensive lenses. The viewfinder is pretty amazing for a 110 pocket camera. It's large, bright and displays 110% of the picture area, which is outlined by a projected reticle with parallax correction. Focusing aids and exposure data are also clearly visible at all times. You can focus and adjust the camera without taking it from your eye. The tiny integral flash, using two AAA batteries, has an effective range up to 20 feet with ASA 400 film. It recycles in an astonishingly brief two seconds with fresh batteries. In many ways this "can-do" camera from Kodak is a joy to handle. The shutter release is firm and precise. The smoothly operating focus wheel fits nicely under your fingertip. And there's a sliding lens/viewfinder cover you can't misplace. In use, you only need to focus from infinity to four feet, using a sliding lever (with distance in feet and meters), and then select one of four "weather" symbols -- which changes the shutter speed, f-stop, and flash, in combination. For ISO 100 film, the * setting (SUNNY) gives you 1/175 at f8. The EX setting (EXTRA EXPOSURE) gives you 1/125 at f4. The LX setting (LONG EXPOSURE) gives you 1/100 at f1.9. The Z setting (FLASH) gives you 1/30 at f1.9 AND fires the flash. Using ISO 400 speed film applies the same f-stops, and it increases the shutter speed -- but the manual is unclear as to what extent.

Huss? You getting this? I'm gonna keep my eyes peeled.

xkaes said:
You can use a 50mm lens to make 110/16mm enlargements, and the results should be as best as the format can offer, since you are only using the central section of the enlarging lens. But if you want to make a large enlargement, you'll have to get the enlarger head very high up the column. A more reasonable enlarging lens would be a 25mm or 28mm -- and these are typically less expensive than 50mm enlarging lenses.

Good info, thanks. Would the 28 also work for half-frame? Kill two birds with one stone...

Patrick Robert James · Jul 3, 2022

grain elevator said:
I'm really really tempted to go down this rabbit hole! What's holding me back is that I would want to print optically, and getting a short fl enlarger lens and a suitable negative stage is difficult/expensive-ish...

You don't need fancy. You can just use a 50. If you have a glass negative carrier (you should have one anyway) then it is a piece of cake. You can just make a mask for the 110 neg, or any other size you want. I do that with my Saunders. 4x5 negative carrier and a mask for all the other sizes. I even have one for the Minox.

The 30mm Minolta is probably the best lens for small formats. They aren't too expensive.

Patrick Robert James · Jul 3, 2022

ciniframe said:
My beef with 110 was that there were no truly manual mechanical cameras, with full manual control even without the meter. Now Hess and others have proved that is not necessarily a barrier to good pictures. And, ill admit that for me it is more a mental barrier than a real block.
But still, it’s hard for me to get past It, I just like full manual cameras. And of the hundreds of models of 110 cameras throughout the years not even one was built like that.

The Rollei E110 has what amounts to aperture priority. That is the reason I picked one up. But you are right.

Cholentpot · Jul 3, 2022

Patrick Robert James said:
You don't need fancy. You can just use a 50. If you have a glass negative carrier (you should have one anyway) then it is a piece of cake. You can just make a mask for the 110 neg, or any other size you want. I do that with my Saunders. 4x5 negative carrier and a mask for all the other sizes. I even have one for the Minox.

The 30mm Minolta is probably the best lens for small formats. They aren't too expensive.

I don't have a glass carrier but I do have a 110 carrier. Never saw one until I found it in this stash.

Patrick Robert James · Jul 3, 2022

xkaes said:
Nice, but no match for the EKTRAMAX.

(1978-1981) According to many, this is the top of the line Kodak 110 -- despite not have any automatic exposure features! Instead, it has five, mechanical, shutter speeds from 1/30 - 1/350 that are set by the film cassette speed (OK, I guess you could call that an automatic exposure feature), in combination with manually selected "weather" symbols on the top of the camera -- which also sets the f-stop (f8, f4, or f1.9) and the flash. This was Kodak's most versatile pocket camera -- equal to almost any photo situation, yet small enough to fit in your pocket. The lens is extraordinary -- a super-fast 25mm (f1.9) four-element lens. It was one of the speed-demons of the submini world. Wide open OR stopped down, it can produce negatives with edge-to-edge sharpness. One reason is that this Kodak lens is designed with an aspheric element -- a design usually limited to expensive lenses. The viewfinder is pretty amazing for a 110 pocket camera. It's large, bright and displays 110% of the picture area, which is outlined by a projected reticle with parallax correction. Focusing aids and exposure data are also clearly visible at all times. You can focus and adjust the camera without taking it from your eye. The tiny integral flash, using two AAA batteries, has an effective range up to 20 feet with ASA 400 film. It recycles in an astonishingly brief two seconds with fresh batteries. In many ways this "can-do" camera from Kodak is a joy to handle. The shutter release is firm and precise. The smoothly operating focus wheel fits nicely under your fingertip. And there's a sliding lens/viewfinder cover you can't misplace. In use, you only need to focus from infinity to four feet, using a sliding lever (with distance in feet and meters), and then select one of four "weather" symbols -- which changes the shutter speed, f-stop, and flash, in combination. For ISO 100 film, the * setting (SUNNY) gives you 1/175 at f8. The EX setting (EXTRA EXPOSURE) gives you 1/125 at f4. The LX setting (LONG EXPOSURE) gives you 1/100 at f1.9. The Z setting (FLASH) gives you 1/30 at f1.9 AND fires the flash. Using ISO 400 speed film applies the same f-stops, and it increases the shutter speed -- but the manual is unclear as to what extent.

Thanks for that info xkaes. That is the Kodak I have. I'll have to write that down.

I did have the Kodak apart for some reason and the shutter is just controlled by a simple spring and the different setting just put more tension on it. That is what I remember anyway. Could be wrong. The camera is surprisingly simple on the inside.

I've only shot one roll of film in it. It was old, and I scanned it on a flatbed which didn't do it any favors. I am looking forward to really seeing what it can do when I get around to it. I suspect that even though the lens is "fancy", my Rollei is probably better. Nice to have a flash onboard though. I also should try microfilm in it, though with the lack of any real exposure control it would be tricky. I use a heap of ND over the meter window to shoot microfilm in the Rollei.

Patrick Robert James · Jul 3, 2022

Cholentpot said:
Good info, thanks. Would the 28 also work for half-frame? Kill two birds with one stone...

I believe you need a 40ish for half frame. I know my 30mm Minolta doesn't cover, but that is kind of a special lens. Of course if you are doing small prints then 30ish might cover, but if you are doing small prints you might as well use a 50mm. If you are really determined Olympus made an enlarging lens for half frame. IIRC it was a 38mm. I've only ever seen one though, so good luck. Lol. I do have a 35mm Fuji lens in a weird mount that I assume came off a minilab machine. If I was a machinist I'd make an adapter to try it. It has a really large film side, so it might actually be a full frame lens. I'm assuming it is for half frame though. Maybe one of these days I'll jam it into some foamcore or something and try it.

Huss · Jul 3, 2022

Cholentpot said:
Huss? You getting this? I'm gonna keep my eyes peeled.

Good info, thanks. Would the 28 also work for half-frame? Kill two birds with one stone...

The Ektramax definitely looks interesting. It has a max shutter speed of 1/125 unless you can find 400 speed film as it uses the cartridge speed to determine exposure settings. w iso 400 film you get 1/350 to 1/30 in 4 steps.
The Rollei A110 gives you 1/400 sec to 4 seconds steplessly, automatically. It is also much smaller than the Kodak, and much nicer built out of metal instead of plastic.

Here is a nice read:

Small Format Size, Big Format Results: One Ten Camera Guide to 110 Cameras!

...or maybe 11 or more, depending on how you count. Could one of this band of misfits be coming to a pocket near you soon? It's t...

quirkyguywithacamera.blogspot.com

Huss · Jul 3, 2022

xkaes said:
Nice, but no match for the EKTRAMAX.

(1978-1981) According to many, this is the top of the line Kodak 110 -- despite not have any automatic exposure features! Instead, it has five, mechanical, shutter speeds from 1/30 - 1/350 that are set by the film cassette speed (OK, I guess you could call that an automatic exposure feature), in combination with manually selected "weather" symbols on the top of the camera -- which also sets the f-stop (f8, f4, or f1.9) and the flash. This was Kodak's most versatile pocket camera -- equal to almost any photo situation, yet small enough to fit in your pocket. The lens is extraordinary -- a super-fast 25mm (f1.9) four-element lens. It was one of the speed-demons of the submini world. Wide open OR stopped down, it can produce negatives with edge-to-edge sharpness. One reason is that this Kodak lens is designed with an aspheric element -- a design usually limited to expensive lenses. The viewfinder is pretty amazing for a 110 pocket camera. It's large, bright and displays 110% of the picture area, which is outlined by a projected reticle with parallax correction. Focusing aids and exposure data are also clearly visible at all times. You can focus and adjust the camera without taking it from your eye. The tiny integral flash, using two AAA batteries, has an effective range up to 20 feet with ASA 400 film. It recycles in an astonishingly brief two seconds with fresh batteries. In many ways this "can-do" camera from Kodak is a joy to handle. The shutter release is firm and precise. The smoothly operating focus wheel fits nicely under your fingertip. And there's a sliding lens/viewfinder cover you can't misplace. In use, you only need to focus from infinity to four feet, using a sliding lever (with distance in feet and meters), and then select one of four "weather" symbols -- which changes the shutter speed, f-stop, and flash, in combination. For ISO 100 film, the * setting (SUNNY) gives you 1/175 at f8. The EX setting (EXTRA EXPOSURE) gives you 1/125 at f4. The LX setting (LONG EXPOSURE) gives you 1/100 at f1.9. The Z setting (FLASH) gives you 1/30 at f1.9 AND fires the flash. Using ISO 400 speed film applies the same f-stops, and it increases the shutter speed -- but the manual is unclear as to what extent.

Post pictures you have taken with the Ektramax.

Huss · Jul 3, 2022

xkaes · Jul 3, 2022

Cholentpot said:
Huss? You getting this? I'm gonna keep my eyes peeled.

Good info, thanks. Would the 28 also work for half-frame? Kill two birds with one stone...

A 28mm enlarging lens is great for 1/2 frame -- but oddly enough, the Minolta CE 30mm f2.8 cuts the corners on 1/2 frame.

xkaes · Jul 3, 2022

Patrick Robert James said:
The 30mm Minolta is probably the best lens for small formats. They aren't too expensive.

Which one are you referring to -- Minolta made three 30mm enlarging lenses:

http://www.subclub.org/darkroom/lenses.htm

xkaes · Jul 3, 2022

Huss said:
Post pictures you have taken with the Ektramax.

I'd consider it if I owned one. I'm sure there are a ton of them on-line -- both photos and Ektramaxs.

xya · Jul 3, 2022

Cholentpot said:
Instamatic 60.

I've not used mine much since the battery is an issue.

It's easy to build a new one. See https://www.subcompactcam.com/110_replace_kodak_k_7r31_battery.htm

xya · Jul 3, 2022

ciniframe said:
My beef with 110 was that there were no truly manual mechanical cameras, with full manual control even without the meter. Now Hess and others have proved that is not necessarily a barrier to good pictures. And, ill admit that for me it is more a mental barrier than a real block.
But still, it’s hard for me to get past It, I just like full manual cameras. And of the hundreds of models of 110 cameras throughout the years not even one was built like that.

You are right, but there are plenty in aperture priority, even with a rangefinder and with a wide range of speeds up to several seconds. Good quality cameras and lenses btw...

xkaes · Jul 3, 2022

ciniframe said:
My beef with 110 was that there were no truly manual mechanical cameras, with full manual control even without the meter.

This is undoubtedly due to the cameras being designed for only two film speeds. So most have only one or two mechanical speeds, and some have an electronically adjusted speed. That leaves you with being able to adjust the f-stop on some 110 cameras. It seems the only way to get some control of the electronic shutter is to use ND filters over the CDs photocell -- for those so equipped -- to slow down the shutter speed. Not worth the trouble. Then there is the Minolta 110 SLR (original) that lets you adjust the exposure EV +/-.
For complete control, there are a TON of inexpensive 16mm cameras, that are frequently smaller than 110 cameras -- and MUCH easier to reload.

http://www.subclub.org/shop/16mm.htm

110/16mm Camera Image Quality

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