ADOX HR-50 / Scala 50: Test results in reversal processing

Team ADOX · Mar 11, 2019

Professional Lab Photo Studio 13 in Germany (www.photostudio13.de) has done very detailed tests of ADOX HR-50 / Scala 50 in their Scala BW reversal process during the last months. Result: The experts from Photo Studio 13 are really stoked, since the results of HR-50 / Scala 50 in the Scala-Process are outstanding. Therefore Photo Studio 13 is now also offering development of HR-50 in their Scala BW reversal process.
For all the detailed test results please have a look here:
http://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-hr-50-scala-50-in-the-reversal-development-studio13-stuttgart/

Photo Studio 13 is also doing international busines and shipments.

Team ADOX
www.adox.de

AgX · Mar 11, 2019

Welcome to Apug!

I guess your appearance means that Mirko now got assistance by a forae/social-media team.

mug · Mar 11, 2019

In the Netherlands, we say then: "Wij van Wc-eend adviseren Wc-eend" ("We, the people at Toilet Duck, recommend Toilet Duck")
More info at wikipedia (Advertising slogan)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_Duck

Team ADOX · Mar 11, 2019

AgX said:
Welcome to Apug!

I guess your appearance means that Mirko now got assistance by a forae/social-media team.

Thanks.
You are both right and wrong with your second comment:
Yes, our CEO Mirko Böddecker will now get additional assistance and relief by our team. Running two companies in such a challenging market environment is extremely hard work and takes lots of time.
And no, the support is not done by an extra forae/social-media team. But by ADOX employees / experts (including chemists, engineers, R&D staff if necessary for certain difficult topics).

Team ADOX
www.adox.de

Team ADOX · Mar 11, 2019

mug said:
In the Netherlands, we say then: "Wij van Wc-eend adviseren Wc-eend" ("We, the people at Toilet Duck, recommend Toilet Duck")
More info at wikipedia (Advertising slogan)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_Duck

That's funny. But it has nothing to do with the topic here ;-) .
Photo Studio 13 is a completely independent company. A professional lab with a very long history and excellent reputation. BW reversal processing is only one of numerous services they offer. They have belonged to the first labs which implemented the Agfa Scala reversal process in cooperation with Agfa at that time. They are operating this process (which meanwhile has been modified due to new environmental laws) without interruption since the introduction of Agfa Scala.
They have tested lots of different BW films from different manufacturers in their Scala process in the last years. And those with good, very good and excellent results then were implemented in their official programme for customers.
Therefore they currently offer BW reversal processing for certain films from Agfa, Foma, Ilford, Kodak, Rollei-Film and ADOX (three films). Their detailed test results and recommendations for all of these films are published in their customer information pdf.

Team ADOX
www.adox.de

runswithsizzers · Mar 11, 2019

Sadly, I cannot read German, so Photo Studio 13's international services and customer information pdf are difficlt for me to access. Does anyone know if the Photo Studio 13 reversal process is similar to any home processing reversal kit (such as the Foma home processing reversal kit, or ?) Yes, I know about DR5 in the US, but I am only asking about comparisons to the various reversal methods available to the at-home DIY film hobbyists. Does ADOX offer any chemistry for b&w at-home reversal processing?

Ian Grant · Mar 11, 2019

mug said:
In the Netherlands, we say then: "Wij van Wc-eend adviseren Wc-eend" ("We, the people at Toilet Duck, recommend Toilet Duck")
More info at wikipedia (Advertising slogan)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_Duck

This is posted in the website's "Partner Forum" so it's highly appropriate for someone from Fotoimpex/Adox, who help sponsor and fund us, to give valuable information and updates about this film.

It's small minded and out of place to criticise a company re-introducing many products lost when Agfa, Forte and EFKE ceased manufacture and in particular Scala which started life many decades ago as a Gevaert B&W Reversal film.

We need companies like Fotoimpex/Adox to revitalize the market.

Ian

MattKing · Mar 11, 2019

I think part of the confusion arises from the fact that the OP is listed as a "member" rather than as an authorized agent of a "Partner".
Perhaps they could work with Sean and Mirko to remedy that.

mug · Mar 11, 2019

I like analog B&W photography. So that why I read this post. And great if a lab can develop this B&W as an reversal film.
But for my, it is confusing. An ad look a like.

Lachlan Young · Mar 11, 2019

runswithsizzers said:
Sadly, I cannot read German, so Photo Studio 13's international services and customer information pdf are difficlt for me to access. Does anyone know if the Photo Studio 13 reversal process is similar to any home processing reversal kit (such as the Foma home processing reversal kit, or ?) Yes, I know about DR5 in the US, but I am only asking about comparisons to the various reversal methods available to the at-home DIY film hobbyists. Does ADOX offer any chemistry for b&w at-home reversal processing?

Google translate will give you the essentials of the pdf file they have on their website & if you email them, they do correspond in english. The Scala process they use is the last of the Agfa ones which is pretty highly evolved - not sure if it's a chemical or light fogging step, Bob Carnie has stated that when he looked into setting up a Scala line in the 1990's, it was a light fogging step, but I understand there was a change around the millennium to remove dichromate from the bleach & a few other changes too - so it may have moved to stannous chloride for reversal. You could potentially run something similar at home, but you'd be looking at the Bellini kit rather than the simpler Foma one. They can do quite a range of pushes & pulls on some films - Scala used to offer from -1 to +3, & PS13 definitely offer -1 & +1 on a number of films - this limitation may simply be down to how well various films comply with the available process times on the machine.

runswithsizzers · Mar 11, 2019

Lachlan Young said:
Google translate will give you the essentials of the pdf file they have on their website & if you email them, they do correspond in english. The Scala process they use is the last of the Agfa ones which is pretty highly evolved - not sure if it's a chemical or light fogging step, Bob Carnie has stated that when he looked into setting up a Scala line in the 1990's, it was a light fogging step, but I understand there was a change around the millennium to remove dichromate from the bleach & a few other changes too - so it may have moved to stannous chloride for reversal. You could potentially run something similar at home, but you'd be looking at the Bellini kit rather than the simpler Foma one. They can do quite a range of pushes & pulls on some films - Scala used to offer from -1 to +3, & PS13 definitely offer -1 & +1 on a number of films - this limitation may simply be down to how well various films comply with the available process times on the machine.

Thanks for that. I have been researching d.i.y. b&w reversal processing kits for several months now, but today is the first time I've seen the Bellini kit mentioned. Unfortunately for me, Bellini say they won't ship outside of the EU, so I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic. Again. There certainly seems to be a lot more interest / options for reversal processing in Europe than in the USA.

I was able to find and translate the Photo Studio 13 reversal info PDF.

The Bellini Reversal Kit PDF is in both Italian and English. Revision 2 – 21th September 2018 - indicates some kind of chemical reversal is part of the default process, but provides alternate instructions for light reversal, as well. (I did not look at the MSDS, but only the kit instructions.)

Lachlan Young · Mar 11, 2019

runswithsizzers said:
Thanks for that. I have been researching d.i.y. b&w reversal processing kits for several months now, but today is the first time I've seen the Bellini kit mentioned. Unfortunately for me, Bellini say they won't ship outside of the EU, so I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic. Again. There certainly seems to be a lot more interest / options for reversal processing in Europe than in the USA.

I was able to find and translate the Photo Studio 13 reversal info PDF.

The Bellini Reversal Kit PDF is in both Italian and English. Revision 2 – 21th September 2018 - indicates some kind of chemical reversal is part of the default process, but provides alternate instructions for light reversal, as well. (I did not look at the MSDS, but only the kit instructions.)

Almost all BW reversal kits allow for light reversal - really just a user choice. The Fomapan R-100 datasheet has an SnCl reversal bath formula on p.2.

dmtnkl · Mar 11, 2019

I also use PhotoStudio 13 when i want to get 35mm or Medium Format black and white slides. From our correspondence, reversal is indeed done with light, and i speculate (didn't ask them to confirm) they might be using a special minilab that agfa was distributing back then. You can also email them and they reply in english, they were very helpful every time i had an enquiry. I guess if someone asks they would also be happy to prepare an english version of their guide.

It is also great to see Adox introduce another reversal friendly film. However, i think the way they promote slides is a bit lethargic. I remember going to the store in Berlin before i tried the process to check out some sample Silvermax slides and there weren't any on display, something that i found really odd at the time.

So, as a small bit of advice, try to promote reversal films more actively, especially at the store, with samples!!!

runswithsizzers · Mar 11, 2019

Lachlan Young said:
Almost all BW reversal kits allow for light reversal - really just a user choice. The Fomapan R-100 datasheet has an SnCl reversal bath formula on p.2.

Interesting!

I have not yet used the Foma Home Reversal Kit, but it's the only ready-made, off-the-shelf, reversal kit I can currently find in the USA. After reviewing the instructions for the Foma kit, it apparently does not come with the SnCl reversal bath chemistry mentioned in the Fomapan R-100 datasheet - but rather relies on re-exposure to light (?)

Lachlan Young · Mar 11, 2019

runswithsizzers said:
Interesting!

I have not yet used the Foma Home Reversal Kit, but it's the only ready-made, off-the-shelf, reversal kit I can currently find in the USA. After reviewing the instructions for the Foma kit, it apparently does not come with the SnCl reversal bath chemistry mentioned in the Fomapan R-100 datasheet - but rather relies on re-exposure to light (?)

All these kits/ recipes have changed somewhat over the years - biggest one being move from dichromate bleach to permanganate bleach - which has an impact on choice of additional silver solvent in 1st developer - you must not use KSCN in the 1st dev when using the permanganate bleach, instead either hypo or DTOD can be used. The Foma kit is pretty simple - a developer you re-use for both 1st & 2nd dev (thus no extra solvent in 1st dev), bleach, clearing bath & fixer. Probably a perfectly good reason why no reversal bath was included - possibly because light re-exposure is so culturally ingrained.

Otherwise, there's lots and lots of discussion on here about all the different formulations used over the decades & silver solvents, bleaches etc.

Lachlan Young · Mar 11, 2019

dmtnkl said:
I also use PhotoStudio 13 when i want to get 35mm or Medium Format black and white slides. From our correspondence, reversal is indeed done with light, and i speculate (didn't ask them to confirm) they might be using a special minilab that agfa was distributing back then. You can also email them and they reply in english, they were very helpful every time i had an enquiry. I guess if someone asks they would also be happy to prepare an english version of their guide.

It is also great to see Adox introduce another reversal friendly film. However, i think the way they promote slides is a bit lethargic. I remember going to the store in Berlin before i tried the process to check out some sample Silvermax slides and there weren't any on display, something that i found really odd at the time.

So, as a small bit of advice, try to promote reversal films more actively, especially at the store, with samples!!!

I'm not sure it's a minilab - Bob did describe it as a machine with tanks, I'd suspect more likely dip/dunk style, especially as it's able to handle 4x5. Should probably find out if it'll handle bigger, 10x8 BW transparencies might be handy for a couple of things.

ADOX Fotoimpex · Mar 18, 2019

Team ADOX is a synonym chosen by me in order to have my staff help you out in a more timely manner.

We are growing. We now have emulsionists, photo chemistry experts, photographers, designers etc.

I hope no one minds this. It was intended to improve things ;-)

Mirko

ADOX Fotoimpex · Mar 18, 2019

Lachlan Young said:
I'm not sure it's a minilab - Bob did describe it as a machine with tanks, I'd suspect more likely dip/dunk style, especially as it's able to handle 4x5. Should probably find out if it'll handle bigger, 10x8 BW transparencies might be handy for a couple of things.

Good hint. Will do ;-)

AgX · Mar 18, 2019

runswithsizzers said:
There certainly seems to be a lot more interest / options for reversal processing in Europe than in the USA.

More interest in slide projection over here?

Team ADOX · Mar 19, 2019

Lachlan Young said:
Google translate will give you the essentials of the pdf file they have on their website & if you email them, they do correspond in english.

That is correct. You can just contact and communicate with them in English.

Lachlan Young said:
The Scala process they use is the last of the Agfa ones which is pretty highly evolved - not sure if it's a chemical or light fogging step,

Light is used. A second exposure.

Team ADOX
www.adox.de

Team ADOX · Mar 19, 2019

Lachlan Young said:
I'm not sure it's a minilab.

It is not a minilab. It is a very sophisticated Refrema dip&dunk machine, which was designed for this special Scala process. Photo Studio 13 can process not only 35mm, 120, 220, 4x5", 5x7" and 8x10" sheets, but even ULF formats up to 20x45 centimeters are possible with this special machine.

Team ADOX
www.adox.de

Team ADOX · Mar 19, 2019

AgX said:
More interest in slide projection over here?

Yes, definitely. Especially in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, UK.

miha · Mar 19, 2019

Team ADOX said:
Yes, definitely. Especially in Germany, Switzerland, Austria, UK.

Hard to dispute this without solid data but topics on projection are very short lived at this forum...

Tom Kershaw · Mar 19, 2019

Good topic as I have some slide mounts tucked away along with a projector and screen, and some Fomapan R, although I've not done reversal processing of black & white film before.

Lachlan Young · Mar 19, 2019

Team ADOX said:
It is not a minilab. It is a very sophisticated Refrema dip&dunk machine, which was designed for this special Scala process. Photo Studio 13 can process not only 35mm, 120, 220, 4x5", 5x7" and 8x10" sheets, but even ULF formats up to 20x45 centimeters are possible with this special machine.

Team ADOX
www.adox.de

Useful to know, especially the 5x7 & bigger than 8x10 capacity - you've saved me an email

ADOX HR-50 / Scala 50: Test results in reversal processing

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