Anyone know a good repair person for a Fuji gx617 shutter?

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Hi folks,

I have a Fujinon 105mm GX617 lens that has a shutter that appears to have had the springs on the shutter blades come loose. The aperture is working fine and the shutter works somewhat but one of the blades doesn't move correctly. I suspect it should be a simple repair for a person knoweldgeable in Copal shutters...

As a backup, I just purchased a NOS Copal 0 shutter on Ebay that I could swap it for. I'm pretty handy, so I am thinking about disassembling the lens cone and pulling off the shutter and trying a swap on my own once the shutter arrives.

However, either way, I'd like to see if I can get the shutter repaired to use as a backup, so I'm looking for a recommendation... I've used SK Grimes in the past for things, but back when he was alive. I don't think I ever used him for a repair like this, though. Not sure if they will do one on a GX617 lens assembly. Anyone know? Any other people come to mind? I'm in the US.

Second, does anyone have any repair manuals for the GX617? I'd love a copy if one exists.
 

OAPOli

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Looking at my G617, it looks like you would need to unscrew the rear lens cell to get access to the shutter retaining ring for the swap. The cell has small tool notches but access looks tricky. It's deep in the cone with not much room sideways. A bit risky IMO but a DIY repair looks possible. Note that you'd likely need to customise the aperture scale.

Edit. I know some repair people but in Canada
 
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OK, after a little investigation, it's clear that the shutter will probaby be toast. I can see that at least one screw has come loose on the inside (facing backwards) and that is one of the screws that held the shutter together, so it is now loose enough that all the shutter blades have fallen out of their tracks.

I looked at the back side, and after taking off the rear frame, I can get access to the two notches that OAPOLi mentions (essentially the full rear cell assembly), so i tried my spanner wrench on it, but it wouldn't budge. I don't want to force it because my wrench isn't necessarily the best for this task. Also, I'm not 100% positive that there isn't something holding it like a key in there, (but no LF lenses have that, so I doubt it).

I'm going to have to talk to a repair person who knows about these and send it to them probably. So anyone who knows a repair person to recommend would be much appreciated.
 

ic-racer

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Seems like unscrewing the front element would be all needed to access the shutter for repair. Are the blades damaged? If not, probably just a matter of putting them back were the need to be.
 

roman_K

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Hi there,
I have just purchased (accidentally) brand new shutter replacement for GX617. I thought it is generic mechanical copal 0 but it has two wires sticking out from it.
I found this post searching for some datasheet, but I am going to return it. I payed $200 on ebay. You should be able to find it easily if you are interested. The seller is located in Miami. Took 5 days to ship it but Miami runs on Cuban Standard Time so it is expected :wink:
 

mshchem

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I talked to them today and they were a bit sketchy on this. I get the impression that they have never worked on one of these and that makes me a bit nervous.

Have you had them work on one of these before?

THanks, ---Michael

I had United do a CLA on a Fuji GW690III, perfect. They took an old Fujica 35mm of mine, they repaired the electronic shutter, got the meter going and did a couple other things, beautiful.
I think it's pretty much just one fellow these days. I think he's incredibly talented, he and the older fellows have worked on just about everything over the years.
You might try and find a specialist, if there is such a thing.
 
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I had United do a CLA on a Fuji GW690III, perfect. They took an old Fujica 35mm of mine, they repaired the electronic shutter, got the meter going and did a couple other things, beautiful.
I think it's pretty much just one fellow these days. I think he's incredibly talented, he and the older fellows have worked on just about everything over the years.
You might try and find a specialist, if there is such a thing.
OK, thanks. Yes, he is probably good then.

I'm not sure anyone is a specialist out there for this, but maybe there is soneone who does these...
 
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Hi there,
I have just purchased (accidentally) brand new shutter replacement for GX617. I thought it is generic mechanical copal 0 but it has two wires sticking out from it.
I found this post searching for some datasheet, but I am going to return it. I payed $200 on ebay. You should be able to find it easily if you are interested. The seller is located in Miami. Took 5 days to ship it but Miami runs on Cuban Standard Time so it is expected :wink:

I have one of those on order. It has two wires sticking out? They don't mention that in the posting and the photo doesn't show that either. Is it the flash synch? That's the only think I can think it would be, but on my GX617 lenses (I have the 90, 105, 180) they all have the normal flash synch jack on the side of the shutter.
 
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Seems like unscrewing the front element would be all needed to access the shutter for repair. Are the blades damaged? If not, probably just a matter of putting them back were the need to be.

Not in this case. There is at least one screw that faces backward towards the lensboard that is part of the assembly that is loose. (I can see it captured in the hole where it is supposed to be secured, but it is loose. Because of this, the shutter parts have fallen out of the tracks.

I'm pretty sure it's going to require a full removal to get working properly again.

The lens is essentially useless without that, so I'm going to find someone to do it, or attempt to do it myself if I can't find someone.
 

Steve Goldstein

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Try calling Carol Flutot in Whittier, CA, she's close. Michael Zack in Providence, RI could certainly do it, as could Eugene Pate (FL), Frank Marshman (VA) and probably a bunch of other experienced repair people.
 

roman_K

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I have one of those on order. It has two wires sticking out? They don't mention that in the posting and the photo doesn't show that either. Is it the flash synch? That's the only think I can think it would be, but on my GX617 lenses (I have the 90, 105, 180) they all have the normal flash synch jack on the side of the shutter.

I don't have GX617, but from my understanding the camera is electronically controlling the shutter. There is a mechanical release lever but without the cable holder. It also lacks the option to open the shutter for focusing on the ground glass. The lens cone has electrical connectors passed through between the camera and the shutter.
I attached picture showing where the wires mist be concealed.
 

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Try calling Carol Flutot in Whittier, CA, she's close. Michael Zack in Providence, RI could certainly do it, as could Eugene Pate (FL), Frank Marshman (VA) and probably a bunch of other experienced repair people.

Thanks for those references.
I sent Carol an email last night but haven't heard back from her. Is she still in business? I think she's getting older now.
 

Steve Goldstein

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Last I heard (a few months ago) she was still in business. I believe her husband had health issues and may have passed within the last year or so, that probably would have affected turnaround. Remember that not everyone checks email every 30 seconds.
 
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I don't have GX617, but from my understanding the camera is electronically controlling the shutter. There is a mechanical release lever but without the cable holder. It also lacks the option to open the shutter for focusing on the ground glass. The lens cone has electrical connectors passed through between the camera and the shutter.
I attached picture showing where the wires mist be concealed.

Roman,

I don't think that wire is for actuating the shutter. On the GX617, there is an external solenoid that does that and it is a bolt-on part and not internal to the Copal shutter, so there's no reason for the wires to be part of the shutter.

I'll see once I have one in hand here, but I suspect it is for flash synch. However, I don't know why they would have that since the GX617 dosn't have a hotshoe on the camera anywhere.

Yes, the shutters don't have the "preview" lever on them. I suspect that is so that you don't accidentally flip the shutter open while the camera is loaded. It takes deliberate effort to do that by using the Bulb setting.
 

roman_K

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Michael,
Perhaps what they sold me wasn't even for the GX617. I sent it back as they supposed to accept returns. The shutter does have normal flash sync though.

0B57A37C-E183-43E3-B72B-24F355C212BF.jpeg
 
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Michael,
Perhaps what they sold me wasn't even for the GX617. I sent it back as they supposed to accept returns. The shutter does have normal flash sync though.

View attachment 320858
Actually, I think it is for the GX617... looking over the details of the one I just got (and peering into the gap between the solenoid and the shutter), I think there is a pair of wires coming out of there to go to the solenoid. I don't yet know what the electrical connections are for (maybe to alert the solenoid that the shutter is cocked and ready to fire? That's my guess...).

Plus, everything else I can verify matches, but I don't have the old one out of the lens cone yet. I'm going to need to fabricate a decent spanner to unscrew the rear cell as it's pretty tight in there. I don't want to destroy the cell by slipping the spanner.

That said, if anyone can point me towards a solid repair person for these cameras, I'd rather pay someone else to do this than dig into it myself. but if I don't find someone, I'm going to start on it soon.
 

Paul Ozzello

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I would try to get the original shutter repaired before replacing it. The space between the front and rear lens groups is optimized at the factory and will be off if you replace it
 
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I would try to get the original shutter repaired before replacing it. The space between the front and rear lens groups is optimized at the factory and will be off if you replace it

Possibly, but for normal LF lenses, that is done by using shim spacers, so if there are some, it will be possible to carry them over to the new shutter. That will keep the spacing between the two cells correct (in theory, but I'll do measurements to verify). If there is a difference in the location of the aperture blades, I don't suspect there will be a large enough difference to cause a problem with the F-stop readings.

I've been around LF gear a long time, so I know what I will need to do to keep things working optimally (in theory). What it will take on this lens assembly may be another matter, of course, but I'll go carefully.
 

Roger Thoms

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I had United do a CLA on a Fuji GW690III, perfect. They took an old Fujica 35mm of mine, they repaired the electronic shutter, got the meter going and did a couple other things, beautiful.
I think it's pretty much just one fellow these days. I think he's incredibly talented, he and the older fellows have worked on just about everything over the years.
You might try and find a specialist, if there is such a thing.

mshchem, thanks for the recommendation. I have a GW680III that had a jammed film advance lever sitting for over a year because didn’t know who to send it to. I just received the camera back from United Camera Repair today and it’s working perfectly. It turns out the the plastic gear that turns the film counter had a couple broken teeth and that’s why it jammed. United Camera had the replacement gear in stock which is now made out of metal and was able to repair the camera. I also had the do a CLA on the shutter and winder mechanism. I’m very excited to have my camera back in good working order.
Roger
 

mshchem

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mshchem, thanks for the recommendation. I have a GW680III that had a jammed film advance lever sitting for over a year because didn’t know who to send it to. I just received the camera back from United Camera Repair today and it’s working perfectly. It turns out the the plastic gear that turns the film counter had a couple broken teeth and that’s why it jammed. United Camera had the replacement gear in stock which is now made out of metal and was able to repair the camera. I also had the do a CLA on the shutter and winder mechanism. I’m very excited to have my camera back in good working order.
Roger

Yep, I think it's pretty much a one man show nowadays. He's got thousands of donor cameras, I have no idea how he can find anything. I've been very happy.
 
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Just an update on this... I did buy a shutter that was mentioned above by roman_K (actually I got two of them) and I went through the process of replacing the shutter on the 105mm lens that I have here.

It isn't horrible, but it is more than a non-mechanically-inclined person will prpobably want to go through. However, someone who knows how to do some camera servicing should be able to do it without too much difficulty. You need micro-screwdrivers, a good workspace (there are about miniture 30 screws involved), you need to be able to do some micro electronics soldering and desoldering. And, I guess, you need a stomach of steel to go into the abyss without any real guidance.

The basic information that I learned through this shutter swap process follows (which may only apply to the 105mm, but I suspect is correct for all the lenses):

1. Remove the "crash bar". Probably not needed, but it gives you a bit better access to the front shutter. Remove the front lens cell.
2. Unscrew the rear electrical contacts frame.
3. Desolder the electrical contacts frame from the leads that go towrds the lens. There are three wires. Make sure you track the wiring colors...
4. Remove the metal body mount casting. This was important for me because I couldn't get the rear cell to unscrew without applying a serious amount of torque to the cell and unless I had a specific spanner wrench fabricated (which is possible), I needed the rear cell to stick out so I could get it safely wrenched without damage.
5. Remove the rear lens cell.
6. Remove the lens retaining ring. Mine was secured with some thread lock, I used a bit of acetone to remove it and then it same off with a Copal 0 wrench. I had to get one from Ebay that had suitable dimensions (the old Rodenstock multi-wrench the many of us have is too fat to fit in thee cone). I'll put a link to what I used below.
7. Flip the lens over and desolder the brown connection to the solenoid.
8. Cut the black wire with enough of a lead so soldering will be possible.
9. Remove the aperture marking plate from the old shutter.
10. Remove a little plastic wedge on the very rim of the old shutter that interfaces with the solenoid (I think it is used to disable the solenoid for BULB setting, not 100% sure, but that appears to be what it does).

Now reverse the steps, but solder rather than desolder, etc.

11. Attach the aperture plate and the little plastic wedge.
12. Solder the brown lead to the solenoid.
13. Trim and solder the black lead and tape or otherwise insulate it. If I had some black coating plastidip or similar, that's what I would have used.
14. Place the shutter on the heloical and make sure it is oriented correctly.
15. Install the new shutter retaining ring.
16. Reinstall the rear lens cell.
17. Reinstall the rear lens mount casting.
18. Resolder the contacts on the electrtical contacts frame.
19. Reinstall the electrical contacts frame.
20. Reinstall the crash bar and front lens cell.

This is the shutter wrench that I used and it fits in the fairly snug space in the lens cone:


It's all swapped out and appears to be working... I have to take it out and test for infinity and adjust the helical if it is off (it might be, because when I was figuring out how things workled, I loosened the helical collar).

As soon as I have tested that, I'll be 100% done.

I think I have all the pieces for the old shutter, so I was thinking about either sending it to someone to rebuild or possibly learning how to do this myself. If I can get it rebuilt, I'll have a pair of backups ready for a future failure and there is no reason I can't keep the lenses running for a long time by swapping and repairing as needed.

One note, there is no reason you can't use a normal Copal 0 shutter as a replacement, but there are some differences... This shutter has no shutter open lever on it because you would fog film if you did that when the camera is loaded. It also has the electrcal leads that tie into the shutter. I'm not 100% sure what they do. I think they keep you from being able to open the shutter a second time on the same frame. So if you wanted to use a normal Copal 0, you probaly could, but you would have to be much more careful about how you use the lens to avoid double exposures or fogging the film, and of course, you would have to possibly only use the direct shutter release on the lens rather than the battery powered solenoid since it may not fully work without the contacts.
 
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