Best B&W Film Reversal Kit: Foma, Adox Scala, or Bellini

miha · Sep 17, 2024

Hello all,

I'm currently evaluating different black and white reversal kits and would appreciate any insights or recommendations. The three kits I'm considering are Foma, Adox Scala, and Bellini. Here’s what I’ve gathered so far:

- Bellini includes dichromate, which eliminates the need for re-exposure.
- Adox Scala is marketed as the most eco-friendly option, combining some of the baths.
- Foma has been available for the longest time and has a good reputation.

My goal is to project the slides, not scan them. I’m interested in hearing about user experiences, including which films you used with these kits and how the results compared.

Thank you.

Supercine · Sep 17, 2024

I have used the Ilford reversal process, it works well. There are 2 versions of this. The older 'classic' recipie that uses potassium dichromate for the bleach and a newer more eco(!) friendly version that uses Potassium permanganate. Both work well, however the dicromate lasts longer in storage.
One change i did make was to remove the Sodium thiosulphate from the first dev. it didn't work for me and fixed out all the image. Maybe with a little experimenting I could get it to work. As far as I know it helps to clear the highlights, but it's okay without.

Here is a link to the current Ilford recipe, if you want the older one it's about out there, but if you're struggling to find it, ask and i'll get it for you.

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/REVERSAL-180619.pdf

*EDIT* I've used this with Fomapan R100

Anon Ymous · Sep 17, 2024

miha said:
Bellini includes dichromate, which eliminates the need for re-exposure.

It has a permanganate bleach, not a dichromate one, but it also has a reversal bath and doesn't require light fogging. This should be the least of your concerns.

miha · Sep 17, 2024

Thank you @Supercine, I really appreciate your help. I might try the Ilford way in the future, but I would prefer to start with one of the kits listed above. Thanks again.

miha · Sep 17, 2024

Anon Ymous said:
This should be the least of your concerns.

Do you mean the chemistry or the fact that re-exposure in not needed with the Bellini kit?

Anon Ymous · Sep 17, 2024

miha said:
Do you mean the chemistry or the fact that re-exposure in not needed with the Bellini kit?

The re-exposure part. People get too worried about it, but it's very easy and you certainly don't have to remove the film from the spiral.

miha · Sep 17, 2024

Anon Ymous said:
The re-exposure part. People get too worried about it, but it's very easy and you certainly don't have to remove the film from the spiral.

I see, thanks.

Angarian · Sep 17, 2024

From my experience there is no "silver bullett" and "best for all" reversal kit.
It is like standard negative film with standard developers: Some combinations work better than others. There is no developer on the market which gives best results with all films.

The ADOX kit works very well with ADOX Scala 50 and Scala 160 (own experience). And with Aviphot Pan 200 (that is not from my own use, but from a photographer I trust).
The Foma kit works very well with Foma R100.

My personal favourite at the moment is SCALA 50 with the SCALA kit. Outstanding detail rendition (sharpness, resolution; very fine grain, invisible in projection) and wonderful tonality. And very attractive prices.

miha · Sep 17, 2024

Angarian said:
There is no developer on the market which gives best results with all films.

Sure, that's why I'd like to know which films work with each kit.

Angarian said:
The Foma kit works very well with Foma R100.

Weren't there reports of problems with the emulsion of the Fomapan R100?

Angarian · Sep 17, 2024

miha said:
Weren't there reports of problems with the emulsion of the Fomapan R100?

Yes, indeed. And I have been affected by that problem, too. But that was some years ago.
AFAIK Foma solved the problem later, at least they said so.

I changed to the ADOX Scala film and reversal kit when they introduced it to the market. The results have been much better than with Foma R100 ( I prefer high resolution films in general). And therefore have not used Foma anymore since then.

miha · Sep 17, 2024

Angarian said:
Yes, indeed. And I have been affected by that problem, too. But that was some years ago.
AFAIK Foma solved the problem later, at least they said so.

I changed to the ADOX Scala film and reversal kit when they introduced it to the market. The results have been much better than with Foma R100 ( I prefer high resolution films in general). And therefore have not used Foma anymore since then.

Thanks. Since resolution is not my main concern and assuming Foma has addressed the issues, I might prefer the tonality of R100.

Alessandro Serrao · Sep 17, 2024

miha said:
Hello all,

I'm currently evaluating different black and white reversal kits and would appreciate any insights or recommendations. The three kits I'm considering are Foma, Adox Scala, and Bellini. Here’s what I’ve gathered so far:

- Bellini includes dichromate, which eliminates the need for re-exposure.
- Adox Scala is marketed as the most eco-friendly option, combining some of the baths.
- Foma has been available for the longest time and has a good reputation.

My goal is to project the slides, not scan them. I’m interested in hearing about user experiences, including which films you used with these kits and how the results compared.

Thank you.

I reverse b&w material since 2004, I've tried them all.
The Ilford Reversal method is the most time consuming, in that you have to calibrate the process for each film individually. @Ivo Stunga is a master of that, he achieved spectacular results.

The Foma reversal kit: I've never experienced such a long lasting chemistry such as this. Ever 4 years after the expiration date (yes, Foma is one of the few that puts exp. date on each indivisual package) the kit does its job perfectly. And never an issue with that. Neither Foma 100 R gave me problems whatsoever. Highly recommended.

The Adox kit: I have one at home, there's no exp. date but some foreign materials started to appear inside the first developer. I will report asap the outcome.

The Bellini kit: I used extensively and it's good, except that is not one shot and you have to reuse all the solutions. I don't recommend you to use the chemical fogging, which is prone to failure (the SnCl2 version). Give the film a good soak in light as a re-exposure. Not recommended.

Angarian · Sep 17, 2024

miha said:
Thanks. Since resolution is not my main concern and assuming Foma has addressed the issues, I might prefer the tonality of R100.

It isn't only sharpness and resolution. It is also tonality, which is significantly benefitting from the extremely fine grain of SCALA 50.
Tonality of it reminds me of former Agfa Scala in 120.
The finer the grain, the finer the tonal steps (better tonality), as you have more silver-halide crystals per area unit. It is simply the same reason why bigger formats in comparison to smaller formats (compared with the same size of the final enlargement) show tonality advantages:
As the larger format needs less magnification to the wanted enlargement size, there are more silver-halide crystals per area unit.
The same is valid for the finer grain film compared to the coarser grained film (and Foma R100 is much much coarser grained than SCALA 50) in the same format, here 35mm.

miha · Sep 17, 2024

Thank you @Alessandro Serrao

@Angarian let's say I don't believe in technical films that are altered to achieve pictorial results and leave it at that.

Angarian · Sep 17, 2024

miha said:
@Angarian let's say I don't believe in technical films that are altered to achieve pictorial results and leave it at that.

The film SCALA 50 and HR-50 are not based on a technical film. The film used was designed for pictorial photography.
And you are benefitting from the Speed Boost technology in reversal development even more compared to standard negative development.

ChrisGalway · Sep 17, 2024

miha said:
Hello all,

I'm currently evaluating different black and white reversal kits and would appreciate any insights or recommendations. The three kits I'm considering are Foma, Adox Scala, and Bellini. Here’s what I’ve gathered so far:

- Bellini includes dichromate, which eliminates the need for re-exposure.
- Adox Scala is marketed as the most eco-friendly option, combining some of the baths.
- Foma has been available for the longest time and has a good reputation.

My goal is to project the slides, not scan them. I’m interested in hearing about user experiences, including which films you used with these kits and how the results compared.

Thank you.

Miha, See this post:

Reversal Processing of 120 size Rollei Superpan 200 in the Adox Scale Reversal Kit

I tried also diluiting the permanganate more but sometimes I got underbleached slides. It's better to err on safe side: note the underbleach time and add a minute or two the next time around. Yeah, stable temps help. I do this very simply too - I put all my chems in glass bottles and when...

www.photrio.com

I found Superman 200 in 120 size works well with the Scala kit. But if I used 35mm, I'd go for the dedicated Adox Scala film. I tried other 120 size films, but some have a problem with emulsion softening. Regardless, you have to agitate gently with the Scala kit.

Mind you, I'm tempted to use the Foma kit given the comments above!

miha · Sep 17, 2024

Thanks, Chris.

Alessandro Serrao · Sep 17, 2024

ChrisGalway said:
Miha, See this post:

Reversal Processing of 120 size Rollei Superpan 200 in the Adox Scale Reversal Kit

I tried also diluiting the permanganate more but sometimes I got underbleached slides. It's better to err on safe side: note the underbleach time and add a minute or two the next time around. Yeah, stable temps help. I do this very simply too - I put all my chems in glass bottles and when...

www.photrio.com

I found Superman 200 in 120 size works well with the Scala kit. But if I used 35mm, I'd go for the dedicated Adox Scala film. I tried other 120 size films, but some have a problem with emulsion softening. Regardless, you have to agitate gently with the Scala kit.

Mind you, I'm tempted to use the Foma kit given the comments above!

A plus for the Foma kit: the same results that you're getting from Foma 100R are equally easy to obtain from the simple Fomapan 100. Same time, same agitation, same process.

ChrisGalway · Sep 18, 2024

Alessandro Serrao said:
A plus for the Foma kit: the same results that you're getting from Foma 100R are equally easy to obtain from the simple Fomapan 100. Same time, same agitation, same process.

Yes, that tempts me (although doesn't the 35mm version of Fomopan 100 have a grey base? ... I know the base of the 120 size is clear). Has anyone tried reversal processing Fomopan 100 Classic in 120 size in the Fomopan Reversal kit?

Alessandro Serrao · Sep 18, 2024

ChrisGalway said:
Yes, that tempts me (although doesn't the 35mm version of Fomopan 100 have a grey base? ... I know the base of the 120 size is clear). Has anyone tried reversal processing Fomopan 100 Classic in 120 size in the Fomopan Reversal kit?

I can speak for the 35mm version. The base is gray when the film is processed as a negative. As strange as it sounds the base turns crystal-clear when the film is processed as positive.

Ivo Stunga · Sep 18, 2024

Alessandro Serrao said:
@Ivo Stunga is a master of that, he achieved spectacular results.

Awww, thank you. I got inspired by The Naked Photographer and my attitudes ar similar of Attic Darkroom. AND if I ever got to offer reversal as a professional service, I'd receive all rolls there are and of various EI ratings. And as any self-respecting pro lab would do: would not engage in "Shoot film X at EI Y to be compatible with our services" bullshit - traditional development approach instead. With pushing, pulling, Stand reversal and all that sweet Jazz. There's no reason to do otherwise and personally I haven't ever understood Film X at EI Y paradigm - a confusing attempt at basement black magic?!

miha said:
@Angarian let's say I don't believe in technical films that are altered to achieve pictorial results and leave it at that.

Why? It all boils down to contrast management and tech films are superb for projection where every ounce of resolving power is of essence. Fomapan R 100 is just unusable in projection applications and scanned too - too soft, uninspiring lack of detail. Tonality can be nice, though.

Angarian said:
The film SCALA 50 and HR-50 are not based on a technical film. The film used was designed for pictorial photography.

Adox might want to have a word with you
Scala 50 and HR-50 are the same film and they originate as Aviphot Pan 80 - a tech/aerial film. AND they have enjoyed attention of many slide shooters, all singing praise to this line of films, myself included - best stuff out there!

Angarian · Sep 18, 2024

Ivo Stunga said:
Scala 50 and HR-50 are the same film and they originate as Aviphot Pan 80 - a tech/aerial film. AND they have enjoyed attention of many slide shooters, all singing praise to this line of films, myself included - best stuff out there!

The terminology of "technical" films is used for film types like microfilms (main original use was for written text and explosive drawings in high-contrast black-white rendition - like the microfiche sheets for parts used in the car industry), copy films or also for sound films for the movie industry.
The film base ADOX is using is neither a micro, nor a copy, nor a sound film.
Therefore it is not a technical film.

Aerial photography is different, as it is a pictorial use, in which photos with halftones are needed.
And SCALA 50 / HR-50 can give amazing halftones.
And for projection it is currently the best BW film available.

Ivo Stunga · Sep 18, 2024

Thanks for explanation and I see your point, but given the evolving/shifting nature of language and ever decreasing tech film availability - maybe you're splitting hairs and are using the term "technical" not the same way both manufacturers and users seem to use it now. What once was "gay" is a completely different thing now and it might be counter-productive to fight for the original use of the term

Angarian · Sep 18, 2024

Ivo Stunga said:
Thanks for explanation and I see your point, but given the evolving/shifting nature of language and ever decreasing tech film availability - maybe you're splitting hairs and are using the term "technical" not the same way both manufacturers and users seem to use it now.

I think we all benefit from using the correct technical terms, as they are well proven for decades and most precise.
And I think that ADOX used the word "technical" in their description has more to do with marketing reasons (trying to be not so obvious about the source of the film).
I am very thankful that ADOX is offering that film with the Speed Boost, as that really is a visible improvement. I get outstanding results with this film, and the price is also very attractive and fair.

Ivo Stunga · Sep 18, 2024

Are tech films available today for me to try?

Best B&W Film Reversal Kit: Foma, Adox Scala, or Bellini

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