Clean, lubricate, adjust: A promise that costs a lot if kept

[Andreas Thaler]

You often read in forums that a second-hand or older camera needs a CLA (clean, lubricate, adjust) to make it as good as new and work perfectly.

There is nothing wrong with that; any device in which parts move and settings can change will be happy with such a treatment as the owner is.


But what does it mean in concrete terms

when you take a camera to a repair shop for a CLA, what is done there and for how much?

„A CLA please!“ But what do I actually get for my money?


In my experience - other camera owners certainly have better experiences - repair shops generally do not provide any information on this or are vague in their answers. (Although of course I have also experienced positive and very positive exceptions.)

It was cleaned, checked, lubricated, adjusted and that was it.

Does a service like this make sense if you don't have any detailed information about it?

What am I actually paying for and what does my camera get out of it?

A thorough CLA means a lot of work, even for an experienced repairman, which of course has to be paid for.


All questions that made me critical over the years when I was still a regular customer of repair shops. And dissatisfied.


Because a CLA in the true sense of the word would mean

• dismantling a camera,
• checking it,
• cleaning it outside and inside thorougly,
• replacing worn parts,
• removing old lubrication and adding new,
• reassembling everything and completely adjusting the camera.

That's a lot of work, which of course also comes at a price. I'm unlikely to get this specialized work done for USD/EUR 100.


But what am I paying for then?

I gained a good impression of the effort involved in a CLA in these two projects:

Have you just purchased a Minolta X-700? Do a Check & Clean first!

Since I'm currently working on a few Minolta X cameras and focusing on the Minolta X-700, I thought a "Check & Clean" tutorial might be useful for you 🙂 Today I was busy with this X-700. I had no idea if it worked. Anyway it was obvious that it was dirty. But otherwise? So let's take a...

www.photrio.com

Minolta X-700: A renovation project

As announced, the first project in the new year will be the renovation of an X-700 with obvious moisture damage. Today the cheaply purchased and well used X-700 arrived and I did an initial inspection. The goal is not to get the camera back to full function at all costs, but to see what damage...

www.photrio.com

Admittedly, one of the Minolta X-700s was very dirty, but for a thorough cleaning it has to be removed from its covers anyway.

And I didn't take both cameras apart down to the shutter, check them completely and adjust them.

Which settings on my camera will be checked and adjusted? Is professional testing equipment available like on this picture?


Therefore, before you commission a repair shop to do a CLA, you should ask what exactly is being done.

An experienced and serious repairman will explain his approach and why he does/does not do this or that.

I think this is the only service we want for our cameras and for our money.

 

[Laurent]

The repair men I used the services of, at least for my Leicas, charge more than €100 for a CLA. One of them recommended (he's retired now) that the body was clean before sending, as this made his work simpler (hence cheaper) and kept the camera in better condition.

Both three of them document what has been done, and returned the worn parts if some were replaced.

 

[brbo]

Five years ago (or thereabout), Leica's quote for CLA was 1.000 EUR + VAT for M6.

CLA was the first condition if I wanted them to try to fix the flaky meter. Work and parts replacement (if needed) for the meter would then be extra on top of that.

 

[MFstooges]

There's a repairman whose highly recommended. He documents the work done in pictures and emails it to the client. I forget his name but some members here may know.

 

[qqphot]

I find it very frustrating because it seems difficult to get problems properly addressed for any price, due to the shortage of people capable of performing the work, especially for older cameras, especially Leicas. I would very much like to be able to do this sort of work myself but I lack even the slightest aptitude for it.

 

[multivoiced]

For digital bodies, Canon offers an eighteen-point service for about 150 bucks. Does this service satisfy, at least partially, what is being discussed here, or should it be considered in a different category?

 

[brbo]

For digital bodies, Canon offers an eighteen-point service for about 150 bucks. Does this service satisfy, at least partially, what is being discussed here, or should it be considered in a different category?

It seem too good to be true so I checked what amount of servicing would Canon do for 150 bucks. Turns out, not much. They would basically clean your sensor and mirror. Everything else is something users can do by themselves in 10min max.

I would definitely not call that a CLA.

 

[btaylor]

Do consider the difference between a “factory” service (like Leica or Canon) and that of an individual likely working out of a room in their home. When I was in the independent auto service trade we expected gross revenue of about $350/hr, this included both parts and labor (averaging a 40/60 split between the two). Overhead is high! For factory service you’re paying for the tech (health, vacation, training and workers comp), the building, support team (shipping/receiving, accounting, HR), several layers of management, etc, etc. An individual can certainly do okay for him or herself at $50-100/hr working out of a spare bedroom. We’re lucky to have those independent craftsmen and women still fixing our old and well loved gear.

 

[250swb]

I disagree with the OP's premise, the price for replacing worn parts is not in the usual terms of a CLA, they are only found after the camera has been opened and if found faulty it constitutes a repair not a CLA. So it's an deceitful knee jerk reaction when people through having little else to say respond 'send it for a CLA' as if some poor idiot is going to spend $300 having their camera repaired when they can buy another for $250. It only applies to higher end cameras where the cost of the repair is less than the cost of buying another.

 

[Paul Howell]

Tempe Camera repair did a CLA on a Nikon F, non metered head, for $125. They did adjust the shutter to bring back into tolerance, lubed the moving parts they could reach without disassembly, and cleaned the mirror, focusing screen, and prisms, and replaced the light seals. First they tested the shutter, it was within range of final tolerance, if too are out they will not work on it. They lubed all the moving parts they could reach without disassemble. The price goes up to over $200 depending on the number of hours of labor. I had the sensor of a Sony A900 cleaned, it was only $50.00. Tempe only works on cameras they have manuals for. They have parts or access to parts for Leica M, Hasselblad, but as I understand it becoming more limited every year.

When Phoenix Camera repair was still in business he would work on a camera if the owner had a donor camera. But the price doubles as the tech needs to take apart 2 bodies.

As far as I can determine there are no camera repair shop with the ability to machine small parts. The shop at Photography on Mt. Blady was the last I know of. Even with a machine shop don't know if anyone can make a shutter.

 

[4season]

Depends on the camera.

Minolta X700 was already becoming more maintenance-free, with focal plane shutter contained on a single module which could simply be swapped out as needed. It, and other newer cameras like Pentax ZX/MZ incorporated more slippery polymers as self-lubricating gears and rollers. Such parts don't need periodic maintenance unless they deteriorate.

OTOH, cameras like Nikon F and Hasselblad V are old-school, may require extensive disassembly, and some assemblies are adjusted by bending metal pins or levers.

"C" is still relevant for digital cameras, not so sure about the "L" and "A".

 

[Sirius Glass]

Over the years I have sent in cameras to be CLA'd. When I have asked what was done on a camera when I picked it up, usually I was told that the camera or lens was cleaned, lubricated and then tested and only what need to be needed to be adjusted was adjusted. Furthermore, I have been told that I was charged only for the work that was done on the camera or lens.

 

[Don_ih]

the price for replacing worn parts is not in the usual terms of a CLA

That's true. No one should expect a pre-arranged price to include the cost of any parts whatsoever.

They lubed all the moving parts they could reach without disassemble.

That's not a CLA, then. That's a waste of time. Adding lubrication without first cleaning the old is a bad idea. You can't clean the old lubrication from a camera without taking it apart.

 

[tjwspm]

As a beginner in this topic, I wonder what is actually meant by "adjust". Is it just the shutter speeds?

Theoretically, the distance setting could also be adjusted. But is this often necessary in practice? What else is adjusted?

 

[Andreas Thaler]

As a beginner in this topic, I wonder what is actually meant by "adjust". Is it just the shutter speeds?

Theoretically, the distance setting could also be adjusted. But is this often necessary in practice? What else is adjusted?

The service manuals for Japanese SLRs from the 1980s cover several adjustments of the flange-focal distance, shutter, mirror, spring tension, electrical engagement lengths and electronics.

The latter mostly involves voltage settings via potentiometers. This is how the correct values for individual exposure times, automatic, ASA, LED displays or voltage gradations are set, as the electronics are still mostly analogue.

This is all fine-tuning and the usual recommendation (Tomosy) is not to change these factory settings unless you have a good reason to do so.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Here are settings for the Minolta X-700 on the board:

Minolta X-700 electronics: A closer look

I'd like to take a closer look at the X-700's electronics in the coming days. On the one hand, I would like to understand how the circuit basically works, and on the other hand, I am interested in details that can be seen on the flexible circuit board. It's always fascinating to me what...

www.photrio.com

 

[forest bagger]

View attachment 376124

Never change a running system.
Don't fix it if it's not broken.
These sentences say it in short, I think.

 

[Nitroplait]

I have often argued against the “cult of the CLA” The notion that it is something desirable to have done even preventively.
As Andreas notes, even the usual techs we talk about who have month long queues and are charging the highest prices simply don’t charge enough to justify that the camera is split to atoms, cleaned inspected lubed reassembled and adjusted.
Many people seem to think that is what’s happening.

A CLA has become more like a flat fee of admission where the tech will use their tools to check calibration, fix common malfunctions and use their experience to preventively catch possible near future failures.
Any deep dive beyond that, typically results in additional charges.
If you send a fully functioning camera to a tech for a “preventive CLA”, they will check it, remove the dust in your viewfinder and return it with the invoice of the full CLA amount. Wasted money for pseudo peace of mind in my opinion.

Some years back I had my M2 worked on by Sherry Krauter. She initially quoted me a price, and that was the exact price I paid + a few $ for screws. I was happy and asked her for a quote for work on a MDa and the quote was exactly the same as for the M2 - I asked why as the MDa has no finder/rangefinder/distance complications, and she responded “it is just an estimate”. After the work was done I was charged exactly the same as for my M2.
In all fairness, she called her work an “overhaul” which is slightly less loaded and probably more accurate in terms of meaning than CLA.


20 years ago it was only in Leica circles I heard about CLAs, now it seems to be everywhere.

Before digital, pros would regularly (typically when they closed for vacation) send in their equipment to a local tech, or via a camera shop to the manufacturer representative.
It would be checked for a fee and fixed if something was out of spec. Commonly worn parts would be examined and replaced and the photographer charged for the exact work done.

These days it is almost impossible to request specific repairs, you are often charged the CLA entry fee regardless of task like with Sherry Krauter.

2 years ago I had a really hard time finding someone who would repair the shutter of a Rolleiflex - one tech, without having seen the camera, would say BS like: “everything is connected- you can’t address one thing without working on all the rest”.
I finally found a near retired gentleman in The Netherlands who still worked the old way. He charged a fair hourly rate on the task done itemized in detail.
Good luck asking Sherry Krauter for that!

I once had a M4 CLA’d by Leica Germany for an eye watering amount - it came back OK but developed sticky frame lines after 2 years and had some more severe issues already 6-7 years later so I don’t think I got better value for money there.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

A CLA that is well documented, goes into every last detail and is offered at an appropriate but fair price is the service for the Nikon F2 at Sover Wong, Nottingham, UK.

My six F2s and several Photomics came back as good as new, and just winding the shutter is a pleasure.

Before it was rough and jerky, but after Sover Wong's work it is smooth and full.

I was happy to pay for this excellent work.

Nikon F2 Repair/Overhaul Service

 

[Don_ih]

As Andreas notes, even the usual techs we talk about who have month long queues and are charging the highest prices simply don’t charge enough to justify that the camera is split to atoms, cleaned inspected lubed reassembled and adjusted.
Many people seem to think that is what’s happening.

It's probably not happening but that is what some cameras would require. People specialized in particular brands (Leica, Hasselblad, Rolleiflex) can probable strip a camera down to its major components in a very short amount of time. Also, there is no kind of service you can perform on a Hasselblad without taking it apart. The thing is otherwise inscrutable.

But the term "CLA" is vaguely understood and mostly even more vaguely specified, so many people probably expect they'll get their camera back with the leatherette freshly waxed and enjoy the nice smell of WD40 wafting from it....

 

[Andreas Thaler]

… so many people probably expect they'll get their camera back with the leatherette freshly waxed and enjoy the nice smell of WD40 wafting from it....

 

[Don_ih]

A CLA that is well documented, goes into every last detail and is offered at an appropriate but fair price is the service for the Nikon F2 at Sover Wong, Nottingham, UK.

That guy has a great reputation. There really are only a handful of names you hear over and over again, in spite of all the people subscribed to Learn Camera Repair.

 

[Nitroplait]

A CLA that is well documented, goes into every last detail and is offered at an appropriate but fair price is the service for the Nikon F2 at Sover Wong, Nottingham, UK.

My six F2s and several Photomics came back as good as new, and just winding the shutter is a pleasure.

Before it was rough and jerky, but after Sover Wong's work it is smooth and full.

I was thinking of mentioning Sover Wong as a possible exception, but I haven’t used him so it would be hearsay.

I do know that he “over-do” the winding mechanism - it is kind of his signature.
Nikon F2’s were never as “Leica smooth” out of the box as they are when you get it from him. They were actually a little gritty and would improve some with usage.
The only Nikon model that approached Leica M in that regard was the F3 - a feature that ironically was lost on the target customers. The professional photographer who would attach a motor and never remove it.

Anyway; A Sover Wong overhaul is $600 for a body and $300 for a finder excluding parts -except foam and new cds units in the DP-1.
I am under the impression that there are also often additional offers - like replacing a finder if it serial nr. doesn’t match the body SN for example - and of course the usual shipping back and forth.

If you are in the EU there’s also the headache with VAT and documentation regarding reimport of your own camera when the camera returns.
Americans have to be aware that the full body/finder CLA price exceeds the $800 untaxed import limit.
And that is, if you can even book a time slot.
In your link, he will not accept jobs for the next year - and those bookings will be processed during the following year!

But: If you can find a mint looking F2 with a few functional defects for cheap and send it to Sover, you can have a “better than new” mechanical film SLR for less than $2000 all inclusive.
Since the F2 unarguably is the pinnacle of mechanical film SLR’s, it is kind of amazing to think about.
Adjusted for inflation, a factory new F2 would probably cost $5000 or more today.
I guess that is part of his business case since he only works on that specific camera.

Unfortunately a similar calculation wouldn’t work on many other very nice cameras. Try to charge $900 to fix a Spotmatic SP!
That is why we need techs that will fix the specific problem and don’t require a “CLA” admission fee.

 

[BrianShaw]

...

But the term "CLA" is vaguely understood and mostly even more vaguely specified, so many people probably expect they'll get their camera back with the leatherette freshly waxed and ....

These are exactly the two problems, and a third problem are internet forum threads like this that promulgate an extreme opinion of what that term "really" means - as if there is some ground truth definition available - and what one should expect to get if asking for it.

Whenever I take my camera for a repair (malfunction) it is easy to know what to expect. Whenever I take my camera for a tune-up, I ask what I'll be getting. The first time I saw the term "CLA" written on the claimcheck I balked and requested a plain-language statement. The tech laughed and said he writes that because "that's what some people expect to see". It's no different from taking a car for a tune-up, or having a HVAC company check the HVAC system...

 

[BrianShaw]

I
In all fairness, she called her work an “overhaul” which is slightly less loaded and probably more accurate in terms of meaning than CLA.


20 years ago it was only in Leica circles I heard about CLAs, now it seems to be everywhere.

I agree and much prefer the term "overhaul", but even that can be shamed into confusion by internet folks promulgating the myth that disassembly to the lowest level of component pieces is a reasonable basline expectation or that a tech should have to prove their service with photographic evidence.

I believe you yet thought it a more recent term... perhaps because I'm not in the Leica circles.