Electronic repairs: Are we giving up too soon?

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Andreas Thaler

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Problems with camera electronics often seem difficult or impossible to solve. But that is often not the case.


„Electronics fault!“

the cry of horror of every camera owner who needs batteries for their device.

Because if the electronics don't work anymore, what can you do? As if a mechanical problem with the camera were a more merciful fate.

And so many cameras with an electronics problem end up in the cupboard forever or in the garbage can. Just don't be reminded of this pain and disappointment.


But that doesn't have to be the case

in many cases you can get an electronically sick camera back to work.

I've had a number of electronic cameras on my workbench over the last two years.

Devices from the 1970s to the 1990s, i.e. from the „cult generation“ that is still well known today and is highly regarded by users and collectors.

Nikon F3 and F4, Canon T90, Minolta X, plus winders and motor drives and the associated lenses, including autofocus.


2.jpg


Simply cleaning electronic contacts can be the solution to the problem.


Mostly repairable electronic faults

When one of these devices stopped working, in most cases I've had it was due to an electronic fault that was repairable:
  • oxidation and corrosion of contacts due to leaking battery acid and electrolyte,
  • leaking electrolytic capacitors,
  • dirty contacts and contact tracks,
  • contaminated contacts on electromagnets,
  • interrupted conductor tracks,
  • brittle solder joints (usually in connection with leaked battery acid or electrolyte),
  • defective LCDs including control electronics,
  • stop dampers in electronic controlled shutters that have become sticky,
  • lack of lubrication of moving electromechanical parts, etc.
All of this can be repaired, provided you deal with it and have also spare parts in stock when needed.


Electrolytic capacitors: Often the culprit and cheaper than their shipping costs

The most recent example for me is the Minolta Autowinder G for the Minolta X cameras, whose electrolytic capacitors fail over time.


IMG_9281.jpeg


Defective electrolytic capacitors are often the culprits behind strange electronic malfunctions or failures. They are available new and are significantly cheaper than their shipping costs.


I have researched this problem extensively on the web and have only found the usual - good - advice to try and solve it, i.e. insert new batteries, clean the battery contacts and clean/lubricate the mechanics.

But nothing about the electronic circuit and its components, that is probably the most unpopular part.

Therefore, these winders are usually sold cheaply because they have a reputation for being unreliable and stubborn.

In reality, they are solid electromechanical devices in which nothing can actually break on its own except their electrolytic capacitors.

Replacing the capacitors is possible and costs next to nothing in terms of materials. And you have a device that will probably work for further decades.


No hesitation when it comes to electronic problems

I would therefore like to encourage anyone who repairs such cameras and accessories to get to grips with practical electronics.

This increases the chance of devices that have already been abandoned being able to work again.

In my experience, serious electronic faults are rare, and even these can be addressed if you have electronic components from abandoned cameras as replacements.

The limit here is your own assembly and soldering skills, and with newer electronic cameras also software and adjustment options that are reserved for the camera manufacturer.

Unfortunately, this is why you hardly read anything about repairs to EOS, Nikon F5, F90, etc.


So let's not give up too soon

the majority of all electronic problems of our ageing darlings should be solvable!

And never forget:

„Repair is noble“ (iFixit) 🙂


⚠️ A word of caution
  • Be careful with high voltage ⚡
  • Electronic flash units and cameras with built-in flash units have high voltage in their circuits that can be life-threatening.
  • In particular with newer electronic cameras and accessoires, it is also possible that higher voltages than the battery voltage are present in the circuit. If in doubt, you should find out in advance what to expect (service documents).
  • Electrolytic capacitors can explode if they are connected incorrectly.
  • Short circuits can cause high currents to flow and the components can overheat.
  • Without sufficient electronic knowledge, it makes no sense to try to repair an electronic circuit.
  • So if you don't know exactly what you're doing, keep your hands off and don't open electronic devices.

+++

All information provided without guarantee and use at your own risk.
 
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Buzz-01

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Yes! I fully agree! Electronic doesn't have to mean unrepairable!

Recently got a Pentax Espio 115G of which the flash didn't work, it kept charging but never became full. Since it's an auto everything camera, I had to disable the flash every time I switched the camera on before it would allow me to take a photo, even without flash (which I seldomly use)

Opened the camera several times to try and solve the issue, starting with replacing the electrolytic capacitor. When that didn't work I started looking and measuring deeper inside the camera. Eventually I found a SOT23 transistor or mosfet to have one pin floating on the edge of a flex pcb. Soldered it back in place and now it's fully functional again.
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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Eventually I found a SOT23 transistor or mosfet to have one pin floating on the edge of a flex pcb. Soldered it back in place and now it's fully functional again.

Congratulations!

How did you handle the high voltage on the flash capacitor?
 

Buzz-01

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I removed the battery and measured the voltage across the capacitor with my multimeter and waited until the voltage was safe enough to handle and to prevent causing damage with my soldering tools (below 10 volts or so is perfectly safe to touch, but I waited until below 2V or so). That took a minute or two every time, but safety first...
🙂
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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I removed the battery and measured the voltage across the capacitor with my multimeter and waited until the voltage was safe enough to handle and to prevent causing damage with my soldering tools (below 10 volts or so is perfectly safe to touch, but I waited until below 2V or so). That took a minute or two every time, but safety first...
🙂

For fans of densely packed circuit boards full of individual components, the system flash units of the 1970s and 80s are a great thing. But they should be used with great caution because of the potentially high voltage involved.

IMG_9289.jpeg




IMG_9290.jpeg


 

MFstooges

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So what was the reason you didn't replace the elcap with tantalum in your winder repair? Was it because client didn't t want to bear the extra cost?
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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So what was the reason you didn't replace the elcap with tantalum in your winder repair? Was it because client didn't t want to bear the extra cost?

I am always my own customer 😉

The new electrolytic capacitors should last a long time, I hope they are made with more reliable materials.

Therefore, I saw no reason to use tantalum capacitors.
 

MFstooges

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I see.
Regarding the densely packed 70s & 80s flashguns, I have to add that any pocket cameras with built-in flash also pack a punch and they are also dense. Anyone who wear pacemaker should not mess with them.
 

mshchem

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The desire to explore such repairs can be seen as inversely proportional to the value of the item. Thus I found someone to repair a Leica M6ttl I had fretted about for a couple of years. Just the meter switch, didn't really need to be fixed but it drove me crazy.

No way I could tackle such a thing. It's good some folks do or I would still be stuck!! 😊
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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I see.
Regarding the densely packed 70s & 80s flashguns, I have to add that any pocket cameras with built-in flash also pack a punch and they are also dense. Anyone who wear pacemaker should not mess with them.

That's right, keep your hands off flash units if you don't know what you're doing ⚡
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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The desire to explore such repairs can be seen as inversely proportional to the value of the item. Thus I found someone to repair a Leica M6ttl I had fretted about for a couple of years. Just the meter switch, didn't really need to be fixed but it drove me crazy.

No way I could tackle such a thing. It's good some folks do or I would still be stuck!! 😊

An Eldorado for freaks! 😍
 

mshchem

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An Eldorado for freaks! 😍

I wish I had the steady hand for the fine mechanical works. I've fixed a couple Hasselblad motorized cameras with solvent. Perfectly good cameras setting on someone's shelf for 15 years, until the grease turned into glue.
I've repaired dichroic color heads (I was told what needed replacement), I managed to find some 40 year old optoisolators. Fun.
 

beemermark

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There are repair shops out there (in the USA) that will fix anything at a reasonable cost. I've had Bronica SQ & SQA repaired, Minolta CLE, Nikon F2 meters, etc. Problem is some cameras like the Leica R3 have cold soldered joints that are very brittle and break and the wiring is a rat's nest. I've had Leica repair people tell me they won't touch them because it takes too much time ($$$) to repair and when they did repair one it failed within the warranty period due to another wire breaking at the solder joint. Other cameras like the Canon T90 is such a rat's nest of components and wires it takes way to much time to economically repair. But most cameras, like you note, are a simple clean up and then a CLA (since even electronic cameras are basically the same as a mechanical camera).
 

MFstooges

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Problem is some cameras like the Leica R3 have cold soldered joints that are very brittle and break and the wiring is a rat's nest. I've had Leica repair people tell me they won't touch them because it takes too much time ($$$) to repair and when they did repair one it failed within the warranty period due to another wire breaking at the solder joint.

Sounds like that car from Bavaria 😜
 

Minolta93

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This may not be the right thread to ask in, but would anyone happen to know if a Minolta Maxxum/Dynax getting stuck in Program mode is a common issue? I've got a Maxxum 400si that has a mode dial that doesn't do anything, and it's always been stuck in P mode. The lens I had for it eventually broke, because whoever designed it decided that making the mounting portion of the lens of of thin ABS plastic was a good idea. I never got a new lens because I figured why waste the money on what is essentially a giant point-and-shoot.

But if the problem is just corroded contacts, then I'd be able to get it to work again and then it'd be worth buying a new lens for.
 

MFstooges

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This may not be the right thread to ask in, but would anyone happen to know if a Minolta Maxxum/Dynax getting stuck in Program mode is a common issue? I've got a Maxxum 400si that has a mode dial that doesn't do anything, and it's always been stuck in P mode. The lens I had for it eventually broke, because whoever designed it decided that making the mounting portion of the lens of of thin ABS plastic was a good idea. I never got a new lens because I figured why waste the money on what is essentially a giant point-and-shoot.

But if the problem is just corroded contacts, then I'd be able to get it to work again and then it'd be worth buying a new lens for.

The wisdom to make plastic mount is also shared with Cannon. There are few cheap kit EF lenses with polycarbonate mount
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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But if the problem is just corroded contacts, then I'd be able to get it to work again and then it'd be worth buying a new lens for.

Maybe a dash of electronic cleaner will help if the switch is not sealed against moisture.

Otherwise, the repair manual should show how the switch is constructed/reachable.

⚠️ Be careful, there is an electronic flash on board, high voltage ⚡



Garry’s offer service for this Minolta:

 
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MattKing

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⚠️ Be careful, there is an electronic flash on board, high voltage ⚡

Or more accurately, "Be careful, because with an electronic flash on board, there is a risk from a high voltage source that can deliver a dangerous amount of current".
Shuffling your feet across the carpet can create a high voltage static electricity spark - just not much current.
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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Or more accurately, "Be careful, because with an electronic flash on board, there is a risk from a high voltage source that can deliver a dangerous amount of current".
Shuffling your feet across the carpet can create a high voltage static electricity spark - just not much current.

You are right …

… but …

… PR specialist hat on:


Warnings should be as short as possible so that they are heeded in the event of danger.

That is why (dangerous) electricity usually is referred to (and shortened) as high voltage, which is the cause of the current flow.

000.jpg



If we then look at it more closely, we would also have to talk about the resistance present in each case, of DC and AC with different limits and effects on the body.

By the time we have listed and understood all of this, the accident has already happened.

Hat off 😌
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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However, in the case of a car battery with high charge that is short-circuited with a wrench, a reference to dangerous high voltage would be wrong, because the danger here comes from the high current causing the red-hot wrench.

And (low) 12 volts DC is enough to cause a high current to flow through the metal, which heats it up in an instant. The very low resistance of steel comes into play.

So you are clearly burned by the current, but indirectly, because the high temperature is the problem. The voltage itself would be harmless.

What should we warn about?

The high capacity of the car battery, the low resistance of the steel wrench, its high thermal conductivity or the high current flow?

I would shout HIGH VOLTAGE here too, even if it is not true 😵‍💫

All this shows that electricity is indeed a complex matter and that is probably why it is rather unpopular 😇
 
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snusmumriken

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Would anyone care to suggest a generic list of things to look for? Loose components and dirty contacts seem obvious; but even if you have a multimeter, how do you tell which electrolytic capacitor has failed? Beyond just checking that voltage is supplied where it should be, what else can you check in the system?
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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Would anyone care to suggest a generic list of things to look for? Loose components and dirty contacts seem obvious; but even if you have a multimeter, how do you tell which electrolytic capacitor has failed? Beyond just checking that voltage is supplied where it should be, what else can you check in the system?

In the case of electrolytic capacitors, visibly leaking electrolyte or deformation of the housing is a sign that they probably no longer have the required capacity or that the inner series resistance is too high.

If in doubt, I measure the electrolytic capacitors with a measuring device:

 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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Would anyone care to suggest a generic list of things to look for? Loose components and dirty contacts seem obvious; but even if you have a multimeter, how do you tell which electrolytic capacitor has failed? Beyond just checking that voltage is supplied where it should be, what else can you check in the system?

If an electronic SLR doesn't work as expected,
  • I first go through all the functions and see what works and what doesn't.
  • If the camera doesn't seem to be working at all, I first check the power supply.
  • The main suspects are oxidized contacts, corrosion caused by battery acid or electrolyte, leaking/defective electrolytic capacitors, corroded soldering points, dirty contact tracks and, of course, mechanical damage caused by moisture/falls.
  • My measurements in the camera are limited to voltage and continuity. Since the repair manuals usually do not include circuit diagrams with voltage values, I can only measure what I suspect is in the circuit.
  • I also look at the areas above the base plate and under the top cover to see if I see anything unusual. This is usually easy to do and shows part of the electronics and mechanics.
  • I use my experience so far and research the web and my specialist literature collection.
  • Then I ask in forums whether anyone knows the problem and can say something about it.
  • This way I can at least narrow down a problem and decide whether to continue with troubleshooting now or come back to the SLR later. Sometimes answers come by themselves if I don't actively think about the problem.


I have listed my topics here, which also include electronic repairs.

Maybe there is something there that will help.














+++

All information provided without guarantee and use at your own risk.
 
Last edited:

snusmumriken

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If an electronic SLR doesn't work as expected,
  • I first go through all the functions and see what works and what doesn't.
  • If the camera doesn't seem to be working at all, I first check the power supply.
  • The main suspects are oxidized contacts, corrosion caused by battery acid or electrolyte, leaking/defective electrolytic capacitors, corroded soldering points, dirty contact tracks and, of course, mechanical damage caused by moisture/falls.
  • My measurements in the camera are limited to voltage and continuity. Since the repair manuals usually do not include circuit diagrams with voltage values, I can only measure what I suspect is in the circuit.
  • I also look at the areas above the base plate and under the top cover to see if I see anything unusual. This is usually easy to do and shows part of the electronics and mechanics.
  • I use my experience so far and research the web and my specialist literature collection.
  • Then I ask in forums whether anyone knows the problem and can say something about it.
  • This way I can at least narrow down a problem and decide whether to continue with troubleshooting now or come back to the SLR later. Sometimes answers come by themselves if I don't actively think about the problem.


I have listed my topics here, which also include electronic repairs.

Maybe there is something there that will help.














+++

All information provided without guarantee and use at your own risk.

Many thanks! Much appreciated.
 
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