Everything you want to know about FUJIFILM color RA4 papers

DREW WILEY · Oct 24, 2023

Thank you. That's helpful to know. It's hard to speak to anyone in the US who even knows what Maxima is. I'm not in any big hurry. I just want to test it before ordering any more big rolls of anything. I still have enough Fujiflex on hand for my next upcoming Spring and Summer color printing season, when I'll obviously concentrate on those images where a high gloss surface is appropriate. Going forward shooting 8X10 color film, however, I'm more likely to hedge my bets and take pictures which look best in slightly lesser sheen instead. There's a huge difference between what "gloss" surface means in a PET based product than any RC paper version. But I like both, depending on the specific shot and its display conditions, and sometimes have even printed on matte RC.

koraks · Oct 24, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
There's a huge difference between what "gloss" surface means in a PET based product than any RC paper version.

Yes, there is. It's a different animal. It's a pity Flex will disappear.

I really hope that someone(s) in the US will pick up the towel and start cutting Maxima to sheets so it's at least easier to sample and use for those not willing to commit to an entire roll at a time.

DREW WILEY · Oct 24, 2023

I certainly don't mind committing to a roll, even a big one. Even a 40" wide roll of Maxima would probably be less than half the price of what I've been paying for Fujiflex. But I do want the best match for my own intended look, based on my own CN shots or Internegs, and not someone's generic idea of what an appropriate paper might be. And based on past experience, their Super C line is probably still a seriously good product; but I'd prefer something with that "little something extra" per gamut breadth and DMax like Fujiflex now provides me.

I actually can't complain about CAii cut sheet because it shares the same quality control as their other papers when it comes to establishing colorhead settings, and is a convenient affordable manner of proofing before going full-sized Fujiflex etc. And sometimes it's nice to have a somewhat understated final result, rather than over the top. But CAii just won't handle the full range of subtle hues and complex neutrals like the "big roll" pricier papers have so far.

arturo_rs · Nov 24, 2023

halfaman said:
I have tried recently Velvet and Maxima matt finish. Velvet has been a little dissapointment but I like Maxima.

While Velvet seems to be the same DPII emulsion in a dead matt base that needs extra exposure to get density and resulting in low contrast images, Maxima is the opposite. You get density easier (I need to cut exposure compared to DPII) and the images have some more depth in the shadows area with the same matt finish than DPII. I need to work with Maxima more but the inital feel is good.

Hello.

I´m from Spain. I talked to Fuji Spain and they said to me to talk with their distributors. At the end I couln´t find what I was looking for.
I´m interested to buy some Maxima Paper but not the rolls. I´ve seen that you tried it. Do you know where o to who can i buy it from (Europe)?

Thank you.

koraks · Nov 24, 2023

arturo_rs said:
Do you know where o to who can i buy it from (Europe)?

I'd suggest having a look at this post in particular: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...4-darkroom-printing-paper.202697/post-2737706
I think it may be of help. Apparently, Tomcat in Romania cuts down rolls of Maxima, but you'd have to reach out to him to see if any will be available soon: http://tomcat.ro/

If memory serves, there is/was also a shop in France that cuts down several Fuji papers, including Maxima (?) but the name evades me at the moment.

arturo_rs said:
I talked to Fuji Spain and they said to me to talk with their distributors.

Hm, that's a pity.
I'd suggest sending an inquiry by filling out the contact form at originalphotopaper.com and very explicitly mentioning that you have been in contact with Fuji Spain and that this was a dead-end street. While you might not get immediate help this way, it does help if Fuji receives more signals along this route that availability is still a concern, especially cut-sheet product.

arturo_rs · Nov 24, 2023

Koraks, I´ve just sent him an email answering for that. Meanwhile, asking if anyone knows where can i buy it.

So, a shop in France..going to search it. If i find it will tell here. Thank you.

Fatih Ayoglu · Nov 24, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
I certainly don't mind committing to a roll, even a big one. Even a 40" wide roll of Maxima would probably be less than half the price of what I've been paying for Fujiflex. But I do want the best match for my own intended look, based on my own CN shots or Internegs, and not someone's generic idea of what an appropriate paper might be. And based on past experience, their Super C line is probably still a seriously good product; but I'd prefer something with that "little something extra" per gamut breadth and DMax like Fujiflex now provides me.

I actually can't complain about CAii cut sheet because it shares the same quality control as their other papers when it comes to establishing colorhead settings, and is a convenient affordable manner of proofing before going full-sized Fujiflex etc. And sometimes it's nice to have a somewhat understated final result, rather than over the top. But CAii just won't handle the full range of subtle hues and complex neutrals like the "big roll" pricier papers have so far.

Hi Drew,

Do you change filter settings when changing the paper or keeping the same settings for different papers?

DREW WILEY · Nov 24, 2023

Fuji paper color balance is surprisingly consistent product to product, batch to batch. But for each new batch, I do run a test with a master negative to fine-tune the "neutral" setting. And different types of color negative film differ in this respect, as does every individual image. So a bit of re-tweaking using test strips is always required.

koraks · Nov 24, 2023

arturo_rs said:
So, a shop in France..going to search it.

There's a chance that I don't recall correctly, and that it was Labo Argentique - they only offer Crystal Archive Supreme and DPII: https://labo-argentique.com/17-papier-couleur-ra4

arturo_rs · Nov 24, 2023

Well, I’m starting to realize that the only chance of get it is buying a roll.

First I’m gonna print a 250d developed in ECN2. Developed at 3:00 and 4:00 minutes (like you said to me on your website). Then seeing the results…if DP II paper seems enough, ok. If not, MAXIMA, I’m coming for you.

arturo_rs · Nov 24, 2023

koraks said:
I'd suggest sending an inquiry by filling out the contact form at originalphotopaper.com and very explicitly mentioning that you have been in contact with Fuji Spain and that this was a dead-end street. While you might not get immediate help this way, it does help if Fuji receives more signals along this route that availability is still a concern, especially cut-sheet product.

Done!

koraks · Nov 24, 2023

Let me know how it works out. I hope you can manage to find the Maxima. Not that it helps, but it's the paper that seems to be the most difficult to get hold of. It's also not being produced nearly as much as e.g. DPII. People should be using it much more, also for their digital prints.

DREW WILEY · Nov 24, 2023

I wonder if Maxima is simply harder to make, or if there's an to incentive let stocks of others papers run down at the distributor level first, so that they're not stuck with those? Or maybe it's the cost factor? All the smaller color labs here do their larger prints inkjet, so the market for large roll RA4 paper is pretty much restricted to outfits with big laser printers, plus that tiny smattering of people like me who do it via direct optical enlargement.

Here I do see DPii available, but also Cii in a complete range of roll sizes. So they aren't the same. The "C" version might have more contrast. My past use of Super C has been quite satisfactory, and the prints seem decently fade-resistant given the actual display track record I've given them under less than ideal lighting circumstances. So I'm not worried. But I sure would like to at least test Maxima.

koraks · Nov 24, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
I wonder if Maxima is simply harder to make

It's the same as the other papers in terms of manufacturing. Same emulsion, same ingredients etc. Just thicker layers.

Maxima sells somewhat poorly because apparently labs and ultimately consumers are apparently not willing so far to pay up for prints with better longevity. For the vast number of amateur prints, I'm sure this isn't all that relevant and the lower end papers serve that segment just fine. But it seems that the more serious amateur and even pro photographers also don't realize the difference either and apparently don't press the labs they use to carry the best product.

This is contrary to a very few discerning photographers such as the recently deceased Erwin Olaf who insisted his color work be printed on Maxima - but he was pretty much the only one with a distinct opinion on the matter, and apparently awareness of it to begin with.

There's a long way to go yet in terms of educating the masses. And in my view analog/optical photographers should outright demand better availability of Maxima. We put quite a bit of labor in our prints and then it only makes sense to use the best product out there. By all means use the other papers, too, but anyone who wants to settle on one default paper should IMO seriously consider this to be Maxima unless they have a really solid argument why it should be anything else.

DREW WILEY · Nov 24, 2023

Well, as you already know, it's currently Fujiflex for me, which is even a higher tier product than Maxima. But how long will that be around? And displaying large true high gloss prints can be a distinct challenge unless the lighting itself has that in mind to begin with. Mounting and framing it is fussy and especially expensive. I know how to do it, and have the right equipment; but just how long will my increasingly geriatric fingers hold out?

The whole permanence question is something Fuji themselves have been making steady progress on; but at the distribution level, it's hard enough to find anyone familiar with any of the basics. The gallery owning crowd seems even less informed; they always have been, at least in terms of specifics, and acceptable display lighting, etc. One step at a time. I wonder if every one of us interested in Maxima could get our names onto a single petition, especially in relation to cut sheet sizes, if it would make a difference?

I have no problem buying it in rolls. It would be a bargain compared to Flex anyway. But a lot more darkroom printers currently using CAii cut sheet might be willing to transition over to a superior option, if one were available. Some people just have a problem handling the thin base of CAii with its higher risk of crease and kink marks.

brbo · Nov 24, 2023

arturo_rs said:
Hello.

I´m from Spain. I talked to Fuji Spain and they said to me to talk with their distributors. At the end I couln´t find what I was looking for.
I´m interested to buy some Maxima Paper but not the rolls. I´ve seen that you tried it. Do you know where o to who can i buy it from (Europe)?

I'd encourage you to get in touch with a guy @koraks already mentioned and ask if he can cut you some Maxima sheets. Am expecting my roll of fresh Maxima (glossy) any day now. If you are only curious about it, I can cut you some 15-20 sheets so you can try it before you commit to buying a roll since that is really the only sensible thing to do.

And @halfaman posted very nice comparison that included Maxima and DPII in this thread. DPII is available in sheets.

koraks · Nov 24, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
I wonder if every one of us interested in Maxima could get our names onto a single petition, especially in relation to cut sheet sizes, if it would make a difference?

I'd encourage it and would extend my help for sure. If it'll make a difference...who knows? They are waking up (a tiny bit) to the existence of analog printers. It won't hurt at all if they receive some signals of how many of us there are. Which is one of those things that's really challenging to figure out.

Also, your concerns re:galleries etc are valid. I'm running into the same knowledge gap. I see galleries offering prints for sale and they don't have the feintest idea what kind of paper it is, let alone how it's laminated, framed etc. These are prints priced at several k€ for a single 8x10" to 11x14" print. As a buyer, I'd want to know what I'm putting my money into.

Museums to a large extent have the same challenge; they have a huge variety of materials to care for and they often simply don't have the time or manpower to figure out what they have and how it should be treated.

brbo said:
Am expecting my roll of fresh Maxima (glossy) any day now. If you are only curious about it, I can cut you some 15-20 sheets so you can try it before you commit to buying a roll since that is really the only sensible thing to do.

You may end up having to buy one or two more rolls extra if you leave that out here on the forum - people will be knocking on your door for sure. Heck, I'd probably be one of them.

arturo_rs · Nov 24, 2023

brbo said:
I'd encourage you to get in touch with a guy @koraks already mentioned and ask if he can cut you some Maxima sheets. Am expecting my roll of fresh Maxima (glossy) any day now. If you are only curious about it, I can cut you some 15-20 sheets so you can try it before you commit to buying a roll since that is really the only sensible thing to do.

And @halfaman posted very nice comparison that included Maxima and DPII in this thread. DPII is available in sheets.

Appreciate that. Well, if you live in Europe and the roll arrives to you in max. 2 weeks, I would like buy to you 10 sheets of 30x40cm. I want them as soon as possible.

Contact to me directly to my email when the roll arrives.

My email is arturoramossanchez@gmail.com

brbo · Nov 24, 2023

koraks said:
You may end up having to buy one or two more rolls extra if you leave that out here on the forum - people will be knocking on your door for sure. Heck, I'd probably be one of them.

Nah, my "darkroom" is exactly 1.25m2 big, so there is no money that can compensate for torture I have to endure while cutting the paper.

arturo_rs said:
Appreciate that. Well, if you live in Europe and the roll arrives to you in max. 2 weeks, I would like buy to you 10 sheets of 30x40cm. I want them as soon as possible.

I live in EU and should have the roll here next week. I can cut you 15 30x40 sheets and it's obviously free. I struggle to use the entire roll before it goes bad anyway (I don't have a way to freeze the roll or cut sheets yet).

arturo_rs · Nov 24, 2023

brbo said:
I live in EU and should have the roll here next week. I can cut you 15 30x40 sheets and it's obviously free. I struggle to use the entire roll before it goes bad anyway (I don't have a way to freeze the roll or cut sheets yet).

I don´t know what to say. Thank you, thank you very much. We stay in contact.

koraks · Nov 24, 2023

Christmas comes early for some people, it seems!
Good job, lads.

brbo · Nov 24, 2023

arturo_rs said:
I don´t know what to say. Thank you, thank you very much. We stay in contact.

I'll contact you about shipping address next week if you promise to then share your results here on Photrio.

(unless you'll be printing stuff that we really don't want to see )

arturo_rs · Nov 24, 2023

brbo said:
I'll contact you about shipping address next week if you promise to then share your results here on Photrio.

(unless you'll be printing stuff that we really don't want to see )

Of course. DP II vs. Maxima

DREW WILEY · Nov 24, 2023

It might be that someone in charge of something at Fuji is amenable to the idea that very fussy darkroom printmakers are potentially a PR feather in their cap, in terms of free advertising, even if the volume of sales wouldn't seem to warrant it. It's more like an endorsement approach. I worked that angle quite a bit when it came to German equipment sales : in fact, famous or exceptional woodworkers, along with myself, were outright given top-notch equipment just for sake of the endorsements. It would be like some famous painter using your brand of watercolor pigments rather than some other - word gets around. Who knows? No harm trying. Maybe they themselves don't know the full potential of their products in the right hands.
For example, how often would one see a Fuji print made from a precision 8X10 internegative rather than a direct scan? It's not a matter of one being better than the other, but just the fact the option still exists, and in a manner they probably never thought it would. A showpiece essentially. I could certainly come up with one of those. Covering the cost is a slightly different topic, but a relatively minor one. Others could come up with their own examples. That's the kind of thing that ends up in their own corporate halls sometimes, or in some media exhibition.

koraks · Nov 24, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
It might be that someone in charge of something at Fuji is amenable to the idea that very fussy darkroom printmakers are potentially a PR feather in their cap, in terms of free advertising, even if the volume of sales wouldn't seem to warrant it.

That's a significant part of the message I've been hammering into them, yes. It's early days yet, but they're listening.

There's a couple more rationales, though. One is that I think us darkroom printers have a much clearer idea of why we choose the materials we work with than people who send out their prints to a lab. My reasoning is that Fuji could learn from this what the arguments and product characteristics are that make sense to people, and they could play into that. So far they seem to pick up on this idea of knowledge exchange.

Everything you want to know about FUJIFILM color RA4 papers

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