Fiber printing advice please :)

mshchem said:

Go here. https://www.ilfordphoto.com/technical-downloads/technical-data-sheets/#photographic-paper

Follow instructions for Ilford Classic fiberbase paper.

If you want the print really flat you need to mount.

In the old days single weight paper and soaking in print flattening solution then drying (not over drying) on a big Pako drum dryer produced reasonably flat prints.

Way back to keep film from curling it would have a AgX/gelatin coating on one side, plain gelatin on the other.

I love fiberbase paper, I love the latest version of Ilford RC too.

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Thanks for the links and information
Appreciated

Chrishuddersfield said:

Thanks for that.
I’ve noticed fiber tends to bend and curl a lot.
Is there a limited time scale after drying before pressing..? For example if I did some fiber work at home and the prints dry, would it be too late to take them to college to press a few days later? Or would they spoil? I’m in once a week and it’s a 150 mile round trip (75 miles there and back).

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You want to wait until the print is completely dry before flattening it in the dry mount press. You can store them indefinitely before flattening. I often have a stack of washed, dry prints saved up for selenium toning sessions. Once toned, I'll wash and dry them again and then flatten in the dry mount press. If there's any moisture on the front (emulsion) side, it may stick to the mat board sandwich. You want to place a sheet of clean mat board on both sides of the print to prevent it from coming in direct contact with the heat from the press.
Now, I usually wipe the back of the print with a damp clean sponge before placing it in the press, which aids in the flattening process. Kind of like the steam setting on an iron. This has always worked for me, although I'm sure there are others who don't find it necessary. I'm very careful not to get any moisture on the front of the print.

jimjm said:

You want to wait until the print is completely dry before flattening it in the dry mount press. You can store them indefinitely before flattening. I often have a stack of washed, dry prints saved up for selenium toning sessions. Once toned, I'll wash and dry them again and then flatten in the dry mount press. If there's any moisture on the front (emulsion) side, it may stick to the mat board sandwich. You want to place a sheet of clean mat board on both sides of the print to prevent it from coming in direct contact with the heat from the press.
Now, I usually wipe the back of the print with a damp clean sponge before placing it in the press, which aids in the flattening process. Kind of like the steam setting on an iron. This has always worked for me, although I'm sure there are others who don't find it necessary. I'm very careful not to get any moisture on the front of the print.

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I actually make sure all the boards in the press have been thoroughly heated to remove any moisture before putting a print in to flatten it. I don't know that adding moisture to the back side of a print would be beneficial.

Pieter12 said:

I actually make sure all the boards in the press have been thoroughly heated to remove any moisture before putting a print in to flatten it. I don't know that adding moisture to the back side of a print would be beneficial.

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Thanks for the information.
Well noted.

Chris, depending on whether you wish to use FB paper after your course or not this link may or may not have any relevance for you but it struck me it might be worth a look and may be relevant to other regular users of FB paper. I was impressed by what I saw. The only caveat might be whether the a slight method can be applied to solve the problem of what the presenter admits is a slight reversion to some curling once it dries but there were suggestions from other commentators as to how this slight curling might be overcome

Those who always mount FB prints need not be concerned by the subsequent very sight curling but those who makes smallish prints to be sent to others or simply placed in a box or wallet for future browsing may want to be sure that unmounted FB prints stay flat like RC ones

Here's the link :
I hope it is both interesting and helpful

pentaxuser

pentaxuser said:

Chris, depending on whether you wish to use FB paper after your course or not this link may or may not have any relevance for you but it struck me it might be worth a look and may be relevant to other regular users of FB paper. I was impressed by what I saw. The only caveat might be whether the a slight method can be applied to solve the problem of what the presenter admits is a slight reversion to some curling once it dries but there were suggestions from other commentators as to how this slight curling might be overcome

Those who always mount FB prints need not be concerned by the subsequent very sight curling but those who makes smallish prints to be sent to others or simply placed in a box or wallet for future browsing may want to be sure that unmounted FB prints stay flat like RC ones

Here's the link :
I hope it is both interesting and helpful

pentaxuser

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Oh great. Thanks for the link. Appreciated.

Chrishuddersfield said:

Oh great. Thanks for the link. Appreciated.

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Glad to be of help. If all you need is a flattish print for tutor examination as part of the course then the price of the Tee-shirt machine is a lot but if FB "grows on you" and becomes your paper of choice then this method may have a lot going for it

pentaxuser

Pieter12 said:

I actually make sure all the boards in the press have been thoroughly heated to remove any moisture before putting a print in to flatten it. I don't know that adding moisture to the back side of a print would be beneficial.

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Sorry Pieter, but in my case this advice is just plain wrong. I live in the desert SouthWest where the relative humidity is usually very low, and after using the same dry mount press for 20 years I've had an opportunity to do plenty of testing.
I do preheat the mat board, and adding moisture to the back of the print makes a difference to how flat I can get the prints in a specific time.
I agree there are common "best practices", but eventually everyone should adopt processes that give them the results they desire.
Cheers!

jimjm said:

Sorry Pieter, but in my case this advice is just plain wrong. I live in the desert SouthWest where the relative humidity is usually very low, and after using the same dry mount press for 20 years I've had an opportunity to do plenty of testing.
I do preheat the mat board, and adding moisture to the back of the print makes a difference to how flat I can get the prints in a specific time.
I agree there are common "best practices", but eventually everyone should adopt processes that give them the results they desire.
Cheers!

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That's the way I was taught. As a side note, I once posted about getting ripply edges on my dry mount press flattened prints, no one ever mentioned that option. I might try next time.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Appreciated.

Chrishuddersfield said:

What process would you go through for printing on fiber on 16-12 ? Would you l Start with work prints? On fiber, then establish what needs dodging and burning etc before going larger ? Or would you just print on larger ?
My only concern is doing the whole process twice, which takes a lot of time . Is this the way it’s always done?

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Outside of a photography course, those who choose to print on fibre are interested in a fine print rather than convenience or economy, so they will tend to be willing to go through several steps. In my experience, work prints on RC paper only give a rough guide to exposures and contrast grades for FB: there will still be some tweaking to do.
Personally, I find it more informative to do test strips on portions of the image at full size, rather than make full-image prints at smaller size first. One factor that seals this issue for me is that even with Ilford papers, there are batch variations between boxes, so your box of 10x8 may not give the same results as your box of 16x12. In addition, as Matt King said, the aesthetics change as you change print size - so even if you up-scale your exposure times, you may find them unsatisfactory given that the elements of the image are now bigger. You may also want to change the contrast by half a grade.
For all these reasons, I cut up full sheets into test-strip sizes. It seems wasteful, but the alternative works out more wasteful in my experience.

I think you also asked about processing FB prints at home? Yes. If you can claim use of a bath for a few hours, you can produce fully archival FB prints. Put a board over the bath leaving access at the tap end. Your trays go on the board, and you drop the fixed prints into a bath-full of cold water. At the end of your session, replace the plug with a short length of PVC tube with a few holes drilled in it. That will allow you to leave the water running gently so as to keep a through-flow. I processed my prints like this for many years. Message me directly if you want more detail.

As for drying: hang them up or place on screens if available. Once they start to feel crisp rather than limp, you can stack them and place under a sheet of heavy glass (ask any glazier for a scrap sheet of safety glass, and if you feel cheeky, ask him to smooth the edges too). It takes a couple of weeks to fully flatten 20 prints, but less time for a smaller stack. The only ways to stop them curling slightly afterwards with changes in humidity are to store them under pressure, or to dry-mount them.

Good luck!