Fomapan R Results - first roll

[runswithsizzers]

If anyone is interested in this film, you can see selected shots from my first roll of Fomapan R 100 <link here> Sample image below.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Wow, lovely. What is the latitude of B+W reversal like compared to color reversal?

 

[runswithsizzers]

Wow, lovely. What is the latitude of B+W reversal like compared to color reversal?

I don't have any actual data to back it up, but my guess would be that b&w reversal films like Fomapan R 100 and Adox Scala 160 have slightly wider exposure latitude than color slide film - but not nearly as much as negative film. When properly exposed for the highlights - which these reversal films must be (!) - I think I am getting more shadow detail from the monochrome film than I see in my old color slides. But I have not done any side-by-side comparison shooting to prove that.

According to DR5, if you use their processing, Fomapan R 100 should be metered at EI 100-160. I chose 160, which worked for many/most shots. But due to various factors - iffy light meters, operator error, and poor judgement - I had several overexposed frames from this roll.

The downside of overexposing Fomapan R 100 is significant. While overexposing Foma R does not "clip" the highlights in the same way as a digital overexposure does - when overexposure pushes the highlights up onto the shoulder of the curve, so much highlight contrast is lost, they might as well be clipped. Almost impossible to recover. On the other hand, I have been pleasantly suprised by how much shadow detail I can recover from deep shadows of the monochrome transparencies, especially if compared to color slides..

 

[donkee]

I used my FomaPan R100 chemistry (not their kit, I whipped up my own stuff) and times to run a test roll of Kentmere 100 through as positives. It came out nice but a little more experimentation is required to get it perfect. For those of you interested in processing B&W slides it is fun and easy, but don't use the Ilford method. I love Ilford products but their positive method was a total failure for me...........

 

[Anon Ymous]

BW slide latitude can be larger, equal, or even shorter than that of E6 films. Obviously, the film itself plays a role in this, but the first developer is the most important part. This is because first developer composition and development time controls the contrast you're going to get. The higher the contrast, the sooner the film gets from maximum to minimum density and the shorter the latitude. A shorter development time will give you lower contrast, but going too low will make things look bland.

 

[Europan]

Awesome. I know the film, have processed it as 35, 16, 9½, and the smaller formats. What brings out its beauty is simply enough light on projection. When you expose at ISO 100 and develop it nicely all you need is a carbon-arc lamp that punches through the shadows. Just cinema and stills projection

 

[Agulliver]

That looks fantastic, maybe I'll try a roll. I am already a fan of Fomapan R100 in 8mm cine film.

 

[Ariston]

That looks incredible. Thank you for sharing. I did not know there was such a thing as b&w reversal film.

 

[runswithsizzers]

That looks fantastic, maybe I'll try a roll. I am already a fan of Fomapan R100 in 8mm cine film.

I see you are in the UK and, possibly, already have some experience with Fomapan R 100 - so you probably know where you can get it processed.

That looks incredible. Thank you for sharing. I did not know there was such a thing as b&w reversal film.

If you decide to try b&w reversal film, be aware that here in the US there is only one lab that processes it - DR5 in Stuart, Iowa. Also be aware that it sometimes takes them a couple of months to process the film because they wait until customers send in enough rolls to run a batch.

Home development is also an option - Foma sells a kit with the chemicals you need - or there are homebrew recepies, too, as mentioned by donkee. I haven't yet tried d.i.y. processing of reversal films. It looks more complicated than processing b&w negative film, but not terribly so.

If you like Fomapan R, a similar reversal film you might want to look at is Adox Scala 160. Sample image below, or <click here> to see a small collection

 

[destroya]

I do home brew B&W slides. Its not really that hard. the most difficult part is actually getting some of the chems. If you are in the US, you can get them fairly easy. it does take a little testing to get proper film speed and first developer times, but not much different than starting out with B&W negs. they are easier to test, just pop them on your light box or in your projector. I find I get about 1/3 to 1/2 a stop faster than box speed with the process I use. so 100 speed film at 125 to 160.

I love the way MF B&W slides look projected (actually any slide film, color or B&W!). give it a try, its not hard to home process, just takes a little commitment. and its much cheaper than color.

john

 

[Ariston]

I do home brew B&W slides. Its not really that hard. the most difficult part is actually getting some of the chems. If you are in the US, you can get them fairly easy. it does take a little testing to get proper film speed and first developer times, but not much different than starting out with B&W negs. they are easier to test, just pop them on your light box or in your projector. I find I get about 1/3 to 1/2 a stop faster than box speed with the process I use. so 100 speed film at 125 to 160.

I love the way MF B&W slides look projected (actually any slide film, color or B&W!). give it a try, its not hard to home process, just takes a little commitment. and its much cheaper than color.

john

How is it compared to E-6?

 

[destroya]

How is it compared to E-6?

not any harder. E-6 is not hard. the hardest part is the water bath to keep the chems as temp. home brew B&W slides has more steps than B&W neg development.

I do it at 68 degrees. first developer, water stop, bleach, clear, then reversal, fix step in one. then gentle wash and last photoflo. so a few extra steps is all that is needed. proper chem disposal also needs to be done as pot dichromate is not pretty stuff.

 

[Agulliver]

I see you are in the UK and, possibly, already have some experience with Fomapan R 100 - so you probably know where you can get it processed.

I process the cine film myself using ID-11 doctored with added chemicals to boost the contrast and make it suitable for reversal processing.....in a Lomo tank. So I'm familiar with reversal processing and can certainly give it a try with the 135 film.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I used my FomaPan R100 chemistry (not their kit,[...].

Awesome. I know the film, have processed it as 35, 16, 9½, and the smaller formats. [...]

I process the cine film myself using ID-11 doctored with added chemicals to boost the contrast and make it suitable for reversal processing.....in a Lomo tank. So I'm familiar with reversal processing and can certainly give it a try with the 135 film.

I do home brew B&W slides. Its not really that hard. the most difficult part is actually getting some of the chems. If you are in the US, you can get them fairly easy. it does take a little testing to get proper film speed and first developer times, but not much different than starting out with B&W negs. they are easier to test, just pop them on your light box or in your projector. I find I get about 1/3 to 1/2 a stop faster than box speed with the process I use. so 100 speed film at 125 to 160.[...]
john

Have any of you tried processing either Fomapan R 100 or Adox Scala 160 with the Foma Home Processing Kit <this one> available in the USA <here> ?

 

[donkee]

I haven't tried the Foma kit. Easy and cheaper to make your own if you will be processing a lot.

1st Developer: 200ml Dokumol + 1300ml distilled water
Bleach Bath: 1200ml distilled water + 93ml 30% Sulfuric Acid + 15g potassium dichromate + water to make 1500ml
Clearing Bath: 140g Sodium Sulphite + distilled water to make 1500ml
2nd Developer: 200ml Dokumol + 1300ml distilled water
Fixer Bath: Ilford Rapid Fix

Buy potassium dichromate and Sodium Sulphite by the pound or more. Be careful with potassium dichromate though, it is bad stuff if you don't handle it properly.

I pickup my sulfuric acid at the hardware store as battery acid. It will last you a long time.......

 

[runswithsizzers]

I haven't tried the Foma kit. Easy and cheaper to make your own if you will be processing a lot.

1st Developer: 200ml Dokumol + 1300ml distilled water
Bleach Bath: 1200ml distilled water + 93ml 30% Sulfuric Acid + 15g potassium dichromate + water to make 1500ml
Clearing Bath: 140g Sodium Sulphite + distilled water to make 1500ml
2nd Developer: 200ml Dokumol + 1300ml distilled water
Fixer Bath: Ilford Rapid Fix

Buy potassium dichromate and Sodium Sulphite by the pound or more. Be careful with potassium dichromate though, it is bad stuff if you don't handle it properly.

I pickup my sulfuric acid at the hardware store as battery acid. It will last you a long time.......

Thanks, but unless those chemicals come with step-by-step instructions, they will do me no good. I have filed your recipe for future reference, after I have more experience. I would be more comfortable starting out with the Foma Home Kit.

You say you have tried a roll of Kentmere 100 in that soup, but "... a little more experimentation is required to get it perfect." What is it about your Kentmere results you think needs improving? Do you have any examples posted somewhere I could look at?

Have you tried either Fomapan R or Scala 160 in your recipe?

 

[Europan]

No, I have my own formula that I enhanced over the years, a hydroquinone-phenidone developer with varying amounts of sulphite. I can adapt it to many films. Used it on Agfa Scala 200 back then, Fomapan R, different negative films, positive stock, and direct reversal emulsions. My base is 20 degrees Celsius. With rising temperature I shorten time. Besides that I experiment with old recipes or the soup concentrates a chemist-fellow sends me from time to time.

 

[donkee]

Thanks, but unless those chemicals come with step-by-step instructions, they will do me no good. I have filed your recipe for future reference, after I have more experience. I would be more comfortable starting out with the Foma Home Kit.

You say you have tried a roll of Kentmere 100 in that soup, but "... a little more experimentation is required to get it perfect." What is it about your Kentmere results you think needs improving? Do you have any examples posted somewhere I could look at?

Have you tried either Fomapan R or Scala 160 in your recipe?

I have step by step instructions but only posted the chemistry before so you can see it is easy and the components are readily available at photo retailers, ebay, and amazon. As far as more testing, sometimes I think the whites aren't quite white enough and other times I think they are ok. Blacks are deep and rich so watch out or you will lose detail. I couldn't find my gloves (keep the bleach off your hands) so I used the worthless swizzle stick in my paterson tank, you can see the air bubble artifacts from it and it was sticking, I hate the swizzle stick though it makes for a connector to a hose for washing. I use this to develop FomaPan R100 movie film in my Lomo tank. Next I'll be trying out Orwo UN54 since it is a positive/negative film and for the 400" roll it is cheap and has good reviews. The attached are quick grab shots of stuff in the yard during a smoke break while I was working at 100 asa. Scans are using default settings with no manipulation since I despise photo work on the computer. Projected they look good with better latitude than color slide, at least an extra stop either way.


Here is my complete instructions and the chemistry. Use Ilford agitation

B&W Positive (movie and still) Solutions

1st Developer: 200ml Dokumol + 1300ml distilled water

Bleach Bath: 1200ml distilled water + 93ml 30% Sulfuric Acid + 15g potassium dichromate + water to make 1500ml

Clearing Bath: 140g Sodium Sulphite + distilled water to make 1500ml

2nd Developer: 200ml Dokumol + 1300ml distilled water

Fixer Bath: Ilford Rapid Fix

Recommended for FomaPan R100, Tri-X, and Plus-X (I have only used Foma and Kentmere)

B&W Positive (cine and still) Processing Steps (68f/20c)

Pre-wash 1 minute

1st Developer 8 minutes

Rinse 2 minutes

Bleach Bath 7 minutes

Rinse 2 minutes

Clear Bath 3 minutes

Rinse 2 minutes

Re-Exposure 2 minutes
1 minute each side 6-8 inches from light source 100w bulb

2nd Developer 5 minutes

Rinse 2 minutes

Fix Bath 4 minutes

Wash 10 minutes

Photoflo Bath 1 minute

After this you are on your own, I have no idea when I'll be able to try Orwo or do any other tests. If I am lucky maybe a few weeks. this is my go to for Foma R100 double 8mm film.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I have step by step instructions but only posted the chemistry before so you can see it is easy and the components are readily available at photo retailers, ebay, and amazon. As far as more testing, sometimes I think the whites aren't quite white enough and other times I think they are ok. Blacks are deep and rich so watch out or you will lose detail. I couldn't find my gloves (keep the bleach off your hands) so I used the worthless swizzle stick in my paterson tank, you can see the air bubble artifacts from it and it was sticking, I hate the swizzle stick though it makes for a connector to a hose for washing. I use this to develop FomaPan R100 movie film in my Lomo tank. Next I'll be trying out Orwo UN54 since it is a positive/negative film and for the 400" roll it is cheap and has good reviews. The attached are quick grab shots of stuff in the yard during a smoke break while I was working at 100 asa. Scans are using default settings with no manipulation since I despise photo work on the computer. Projected they look good with better latitude than color slide, at least an extra stop either way.


Here is my complete instructions and the chemistry. ,,,

[...].

Wow! Thanks so much for that! Your example photos are encouraging, and your process sounds like something I think I can manage. I am off to shop for chemicals.

 

[donkee]

Wow! Thanks so much for that! Your example photos are encouraging, and your process sounds like something I think I can manage. I am off to shop for chemicals.

It is easy enough to do, you will be fine. I will test next with white, grey, and black cards along with b&w filters to see what happens, but if I stick with my current results I would be happy. Just play around with it and enjoy the experience of it. Just please be careful with the potassium dichromate. When weighing I use pieces of paper on the scale then discard them after use. Wear a dust mask and try not to stir up dust from the PD, and wipe down the area with wet paper towel when finished. Wear gloves too when working with PD. The chemistry will last probably 6 months minimum if stored in airtight and full containers. I picked up some 1500ml square bottles from amazon (took a couple weeks for them to arrive) that work perfectly. I need 1500ml for the Lomo tank but of course you can mix smaller volumes. Watch for signs of exhaustion after about 6 rolls of 36 exposure 35mm I would guess. I used to process color slide before I lost everything, back when the Kodak E-6 kit was available and you could get bulk rolls of E-6 film. Nice to be doing transparencies again if only I could figure out where to get slide mounts in bulk cheap!

My reward for the test was out of the 6 slide projectors that I have one fried the bulb base, one sticks when cycling, and the 3rd one won't cycle at all. All worked perfectly last time I used them, grrrrr.... he first two are GAF projectors and the 3rd a Kodak. And people wonder why I have so many slide projectors. I'll be able to fix the GAFs but I won't replace the linkage in the Kodak myself (a hassle), I'll have to ship it off. Best deal I found for the repair with a cleaning and adjustments is $110. Glad I have 3 more Kodaks but you know they are on borrowed time too. And I just bought a zoom lens for the Kodak that failed........

 

[runswithsizzers]

[...] Just please be careful with the potassium dichromate.[...] Watch for signs of exhaustion after about 6 rolls of 36 exposure 35mm I would guess. I used to process color slide before I lost everything, back when the Kodak E-6 kit was available and you could get bulk rolls of E-6 film. Nice to be doing transparencies again if only I could figure out where to get slide mounts in bulk cheap!

My reward for the test was out of the 6 slide projectors that I have one fried the bulb base, one sticks when cycling, and the 3rd one won't cycle at all. All worked perfectly last time I used them, grrrrr.... he first two are GAF projectors and the 3rd a Kodak. And people wonder why I have so many slide projectors. I'll be able to fix the GAFs but I won't replace the linkage in the Kodak myself (a hassle), I'll have to ship it off. Best deal I found for the repair with a cleaning and adjustments is $110. Glad I have 3 more Kodaks but you know they are on borrowed time too. And I just bought a zoom lens for the Kodak that failed........

During the 20 some years I worked in a hospital labortory, I was required to watch many continuing education videos about "Chemical Hygene" so I think I know that is supposed to work. I will exercise due diligence to combat my natural tendency towards sloppiness. Thanks for the additional information about storage life.

Sorry to hear about your slide projector(s). Now you have me worried about mine. Back in 2010, I had to replace the focus pinion gear in my Kodak Carousel 750H. After looking inside the Carousel, I knew I did not want to work on it, but I didn't know anywhere else to take it, so I replaced the gear myself. It was working fine when I last used it - about 2010 - but I just discovered the lens was stuck (retracted) and when I turned the focus knob the plastic gear on the focus knob split - the same one I replaced back in 2010.

If I decide I don't want to work on this beast - is it Fargo Enterprises in Dixon, CA where you are sending yours <link here>, or is there someplace else I should consider? Would you say I'd be better off getting a newer Kodak projector, or getting mine repaired?

 

[donkee]

The place I found for projector repair is lezots complete camera center. I'll probably pack it up in a month or two and send it off. If anyone has a recommendation I am all ears! I would do go the repair route. If they do a cla type thing and the repairs it should hopefully last another 20+ years. I am doing that with my Olympus bodies and a B&H 16mm projector.

 

[runswithsizzers]

The place I found for projector repair is lezots complete camera center. I'll probably pack it up in a month or two and send it off. If anyone has a recommendation I am all ears! I would do go the repair route. If they do a cla type thing and the repairs it should hopefully last another 20+ years. I am doing that with my Olympus bodies and a B&H 16mm projector.

Thanks for mentioning LeZot's. I will probably attempt the focus gear repair myself. The eBay seller where I plan to get the part also offers a mail-in repair service aimed at Kodak projectors which "won't advance" $85-115 + return shipping <link here> I haven't actually had anything repaired by him, so that's not really a recommendation. I notice neither LeZots nor my eBay seller say much about warranty on their repairs. Fargo Enterprises (link in post #21) says 6 months.

 

[donkee]

When I get fed up enough with my job I think I'll have to learn Kodak slide projector and B&H movie projector repair! I'm paying $450 for a complete overhaul of my B&H 16mm projector, but then I figure if I could buy a new one I would be paying close to $2000.00 most likely. I forgot to mention, I did run a short roll of Kodak XX to develop as slides. It came out dark but I think there is potential, I just have to have time to thoroughly test it. Could be that I just have to increase development time or maybe exposing at 125 or so. I'll find out eventually. If that works I'll be pretty happy since I am picking up a 400' roll every couple months......