Fotospeed Copper Toner - "scum"?

[RauschenOderKorn]

I tried Fotospeed´s Copper Toner yesterday, and a few things surprised me:

1.) The copper toner comes in two parts, the second part containing the copper sulfate was partially kind of jelly and hard to dilute. Does anybody know what happened?
2.) The shelf live of the set according to instructions is at least one year, yet no production date is on the package? After mixing the toner according to instructions, there was some undissolved jelly floating around in the toner.
3.) The instructions indicate to wipe the prints after toning to "remove scum"? What are they referring to, is it normal that the toner does not dissolve completly?
4.) According to the instructions, the loss of density is supposed to be about 15% (whatever that means). I toned two lith prints to completion, and these lost around 1-2 stops of density (i.e. before they were way too dark, now they are good).

The toner was highly active in the beginning, particularly bleaching donw the print (starting in the highlights). Yet got slower and more acceptable after a few prints.

I actually liked the slow part for giving lith prints - which were just a little too dark - a slight bleach back and a little sepia tone (aprox. 30 seconds toning time only). But I guess I will start mixing my own according to the formula from Tim Rudman´s book.

 

[awty]

Goes a bit gluggy after you ope the bottle.
I wash in hypo to clear the prints after toning. Didnt particularly like the fotospeed copper seemed to be a pinky brown. It doesnt last very long and you should do batches and discard afterwards. Be careful of the additive as it is quite corrosive. Fotospeed vanadium and sepia last for a long time and can be reused.

 

[Rudeofus]

If I look here for a classic copper toner formula, then I have no idea, what could possibly go bad in such a kit. The "lasts 1 year" statement is probably as useful as the expiry date on table salt. At the same time, there is nothing in this toner, which could explain that jelly you saw, so god knows what Fotospeed did here.

Copper toner goes bad with few reuses and also very quickly just sitting idly in a tray. It's the kind of bath you use quickly for a few prints that are ready to go, then you discard the toner. That's why I like self mixing, all these kits mix a lot of toner to be used at once. Once this toner starts going bad it also stains your paper, so you'll notice this quickly.

 

[pentaxuser]

Copper toner goes bad with few reuses and also very quickly just sitting idly in a tray. It's the kind of bath you use quickly for a few prints that are ready to go, then you discard the toner. That's why I like self mixing, all these kits mix a lot of toner to be used at once. Once this toner starts going bad it also stains your paper, so you'll notice this quickly.

I have never used Fotospeed Copper Toner nor any toner for that matter but looking at the instructions for this toner, it appears to make 1.5L. If you were to pour all 1.5L into a winebag to deny it air and needed only,say, 500ml for cover 5x7 prints in a 5x7 tray, can you decant only 500ml and expect the rest to be OK in the winebag? How long might the remaining 1L keep in the bag?

Finally how many 5x7 prints might the 500ml do in a session and can I take it that even if you do only one print in a session, the 500ml in the tray has then to be dumped and will not last beyond that session or will it and if so how long if covered in cling film or decanted into a bottle?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Rudeofus]

I have never used that Fotospeed toner either. A long time ago I bought sulfur, selenium and blue toner, waited for a bunch of prints to be toned, then ran a massive toning session. Very quickly I discovered, that one wouldn't want to pay that much for a single toning session and began to home brew these few toners (except for selenium, but homebrewing it involves very toxic compounds, and it has long working solution shelf life).

So here are my experiences with self made red&blue toners, typically following the recipes here:

1. red and blue toner working solution lasts little longer than an hour or two. You also can't run too many prints through it.
2. best way to use these toners is to mix as little as possible and to replace them regularly during a session.
3. always make sure you have multiple prints of each image, sometimes you need more than one to figure out what you are supposed to do (including "replace toner bath").
4. assume that toning is a lossy (as in: some prints will go to waste) and unpredictable procedure, unless you mix a fresh bath for each print you run through.
5. experience beats theory every time. prepare some failed prints for practice run, or for figuring out how a particular paper responds to this toner.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks for your reply Rudeofus

pentaxuser