Fuji color negative identification complete confusion... help? - for scanning with VueScan

Dee Ehss · Dec 8, 2021

Hello everyone,

I am new to the game of digitizing 35mm film. I've been educating myself these past couple months on a variety of topics, especially on how to effectively use Vuescan. Everything has gone well... until I ran into my 1990's Fuji negatives. I am having a really hard time identifying Fuji 35mm color negative film stock. I've scoured all over the place online with little success. I learned a bit about DX identification (and basically ran into dead ends), incomplete and confusing accounts of what types of Fuji film stocks were available and when... Yikes.

Here are my questions that I'm hoping you can help me with:

1) Most broadly: how do you identify Fuji film with only negatives and no original canister? Unlike Kodak, there's very little roman alphabet identification on some Fuji negatives. For example, the negs I was trying to identify yesterday said only: Fuji, 100, 966B, and the film leader had "5D3HM2" on it. Google gave me nothing on all of this.

2) Because I'm using Vuescan, the types of Fuji film I could potentially use (in the apps "Color" settings) are fairly limited. Here's the short list
-- Reala
-- Super G
-- Super HG
-- Super HR
(There are others: NHG, NPS, SHR-- but none of these names ring any bells in my head as film I would have purchased 25 years ago)
Does anyone know when these films were introduced and discontinued? Knowing these dates might also help me identify the film stock based on when I was shooting.

... and I may yet run into Fuji slide film in my collection, I bet that's going to be just as fun to figure out...

Thank you for your help!

Nitroplait · Dec 8, 2021

Re: 2) Any reason for not just running 4 scans through with each of the profiles and pick the one that agrees with your eyes?

Dee Ehss · Dec 8, 2021

Thanks Nitroplait, yes, good suggestion. Yesterday that's basically what I ended up doing out of frustration with being completely confused. For that particular set of negatives I tried some tests like that and picked the one I wanted. I could essentially do that with every "mystery" roll, and over time I could avoid testing some rolls because the scant identifying marks on one roll will match those of another roll, and that saves me time... and that brings me to a critical element: time. I have hundreds of rolls to scan, and every little bit of time saving counts. That's the reason I am hoping to be able to learn to identify Fuji film stock so I can cut the corner of having to run tests.

bernard_L · Dec 8, 2021

I would not (actually will not) rely on vuescan's film profiles. The four types you list are "unobtainium". Well, I may have one roll of Reala left somewhere. And none of the currently available Fuji films: Xtra 400, C200, are in that list.
Take one picture of a neutral gray card, in typical lighting(s) for each roll, and when s****g (the S-word is forbidden on this forum) set the neutral point on that. Will take care of color cast at average density; not a total solution, but better than guessing.

MattKing · Dec 8, 2021

FWIW, while detailed discussions of scanning issues belong in a different part of this forum - the Scanning and Scanners part - I wouldn't say scanning is a forbidden word here in this part. Just be prepared to have the discussion moved to where it more appropriately resides.
I'll say welcome to Photrio to Dee Ehss. No harm, no foul. And then I'll move and slightly re-title the thread - good luck in obtaining the anser you need.
By the way, I think Nitroplait was actually suggesting that you pick the Vuescan profile that seems closest, and then run with that in the future for that type of film. In my experience, Vuescan works best if you customize, store and re-use your own profiles.

Dee Ehss · Dec 8, 2021

@bernard_L : These are rolls of film I shot in 1990s. I don't even have a film camera anymore, so while your technique sounds really solid, I can't use it.. but thank you!
@MattKing: I totally get what you're saying. However What I'm really trying to get at is less about the scanning part and more about how you identify negatives. Does that not belong in this part of Photrio? Not trying to start an argument, I just mean to respectfully ask about your protocols. Thank you as well!

removed account4 · Dec 8, 2021

Dee Ehss said:
Hello everyone,

I am new to the game of digitizing 35mm film. I've been educating myself these past couple months on a variety of topics, especially on how to effectively use Vuescan. Everything has gone well... until I ran into my 1990's Fuji negatives. I am having a really hard time identifying Fuji 35mm color negative film stock. I've scoured all over the place online with little success. I learned a bit about DX identification (and basically ran into dead ends), incomplete and confusing accounts of what types of Fuji film stocks were available and when... Yikes.

Here are my questions that I'm hoping you can help me with:

1) Most broadly: how do you identify Fuji film with only negatives and no original canister? Unlike Kodak, there's very little roman alphabet identification on some Fuji negatives. For example, the negs I was trying to identify yesterday said only: Fuji, 100, 966B, and the film leader had "5D3HM2" on it. Google gave me nothing on all of this.

2) Because I'm using Vuescan, the types of Fuji film I could potentially use (in the apps "Color" settings) are fairly limited. Here's the short list
-- Reala
-- Super G
-- Super HG
-- Super HR
(There are others: NHG, NPS, SHR-- but none of these names ring any bells in my head as film I would have purchased 25 years ago)
Does anyone know when these films were introduced and discontinued? Knowing these dates might also help me identify the film stock based on when I was shooting.

... and I may yet run into Fuji slide film in my collection, I bet that's going to be just as fun to figure out...

Thank you for your help!

I never use with those profiles as religion. you can see how the tonality of the image changes when you change the setting. just use a pre-set or don't bother at all ( I don't bother ) and use the scanner just to scan and PS ( or whatever you use ) to adjust everything post-scan

bernard_L · Dec 8, 2021

MattKing said:
Vuescan works best if you customize, store and re-use your own profiles.

Vuescan clearly does not have a full CMS (color management system) implemented. It can use its internally derived gamma-matrix profiles, but will not accept an externally (Argyll) derived LUT profile. So:

Ether you do your own per-film (and per-lighting, i.e. sunny, open shade, etc) neutral point calibration, which gets you real close;
Or you use your S***r software just to deliver raw files, include on each film an IT8 target (coloraid.de) and in post, prepare the profile and apply it. Some learning curve; really consider the first option above.

bernard_L · Dec 8, 2021

Dee Ehss said:
@bernard_L : These are rolls of film I shot in 1990s. I don't even have a film camera anymore, so while your technique sounds really solid, I can't use it.. but thank you!
@MattKing: I totally get what you're saying. However What I'm really trying to get at is less about the scanning part and more about how you identify negatives. Does that not belong in this part of Photrio? Not trying to start an argument, I just mean to respectfully ask about your protocols. Thank you as well!

Then try the "automagic" color options "White Balance" or "Auto Levels". Try both, keep the one you like best. I guess you are right about the edge markings, in human-readable form and some kind of barcode for the minilabs; certainly someone on photrio knows more.

MattKing · Dec 8, 2021

Dee Ehss said:
@MattKing: I totally get what you're saying. However What I'm really trying to get at is less about the scanning part and more about how you identify negatives. Does that not belong in this part of Photrio? Not trying to start an argument, I just mean to respectfully ask about your protocols. Thank you as well!

Your question could be asked and the film only related parts to it could be answered in several places in this forum. But the discussion was obviously trending toward Scanning related issues - thus the move to this sub-forum.
FWIW, most people here who might be equipped to answer your question will see it no matter which location is used, and the relatively few who won't see it because they don't have the Scanning areas visible would almost certainly not be able to tell you anything about how to deal with their answer in VueScan.

reddesert · Dec 8, 2021

Sure it's better if you customize color profiles, but it helps to start with something that might be close. For ex, "consumer" and "professional" color film often have differences. It may be that just starting with a consumer film of the same speed is the best approach. I don't think we need to treat scanning as an unprintable word; it is already often discussed in the film forums. To attempt to answer some of the questions:

- I looked at some of my Fuji color film from the early 2000s and it's labeled "S-400" and "S-800" on the edges, which are surely Superia 400 and 800. There are other numbers like CH10, CH-7, but I suspect those are batch numbers. I didn't go back far enough to find any Super G or Reala.

- Super HG, Super G, Superia are generations of Fuji consumer film and are probably relatively similar within a speed. Also there may have been evolution during the lifetime of a name. Roughly, Super HG is early 90s, Super G is 1995-2000, Superia is 2000+.

Here are some more resources for the Fuji film timeline:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_discontinued_photographic_films#Color_negative_film_2

https://fujiaddict.com/2019/07/15/for-the-fujifilm-film-fans/ (machine translated from Chinese so allow for language oddities)

Dee Ehss · Dec 8, 2021

@jnantz - I agree, do the minimum, and then use PS for the real work.
@bernard_L You're clearly an expert! I'll study up on your suggestions.
@MattKing Good to know that many eyes will see my question!
@reddesert gold! This info is gold! I did earlier find those web pages, which are helpful, but your approximate timeline of those films is super useful!

Thanks!

sasah zib · Dec 8, 2021

from vuescan site: https://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc25.htm
"
VueScan contains information about the color sensitivity of many different types of film. Use the table below to identify the types of film from the labels and the colors of the stripes over the sprocket holes.
If you're using film types that aren't in this table, particularly some of the newer Fuji films, try experimenting with the Kodak Gold and Kodak Advantix settings - these seem to work well."

and a table of codes and decoding interpretation.

Wallendo · Dec 8, 2021

VueScan's profiles haven't been updated in a very long time. I frequently just use the "generic" setting.
You can use the auto levels option to color correct, but I generally have all color scans loaded automatically into PhotoShop and adjust the three color channel levels and save the image.

cmacd123 · Dec 8, 2021

The three types of SUPER fuji film in your list
-- Super G
-- Super HG
-- Super HR
were some of the first ones that Fuji Started to sell in North America. They quickly learned to make their film so it would print with the "Kodak" settings on a Automatic Photofinishing printer. (both real printers and electronically mediated ones). Most other brands also made it a point to also work with the "Kodak" setting to ensure that their customers would be satisfied.

so try your "Kodak Gold" filter and see what you like.

grat · Dec 8, 2021

You might try a different approach. There's an open source package called Darktable, which is a little daunting at first, but has two nice features-- One, a highly customizable inversion module called 'negadoctor', and two, the ability to save (and apply) your (non-destructive) edits.

So the process would go similar to this:

Scan a collection of images from the same batch of film in raw / unconverted mode with vuescan
Import to darktable, use negadoctor to set the inversion profile how you want it for the first image
Apply profile to the remaining images in your set

That way you can custom set the inversion profile for the mask for each batch of film, without having to set it manually for each frame.

destroya · Dec 9, 2021

Wallendo said:
VueScan's profiles haven't been updated in a very long time. I frequently just use the "generic" setting.
You can use the auto levels option to color correct, but I generally have all color scans loaded automatically into PhotoShop and adjust the three color channel levels and save the image.

I do the same, just use generic for every color neg i scan and then adjust in photoshop.

john

Dee Ehss · Dec 10, 2021

Everybody thank you! You have given me so many different things to look at and try! I really appreciate all your time and insights.

Fuji color negative identification complete confusion... help? - for scanning with VueScan

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