Hasselblad Zeiss T* and non-T*

[Matt5791]

What does the T* add to the Hasselblad Zeiss lenses? - I know it is something to do with the coatings - or does it go further that that?

I am curently looking to buy a 150mm sonnar and I am wondering if it is worth paying the extra for.

Thanks for any help,

Matt

 

[EmilGil]

Definately! The T* means that the lens is multi-coated, i.e. better protected against stray light and reflections. The oldest lenses without multi-coating are pretty prone to flare, and the result is not very beautiful... Another thing to think about is the age of the lens, the single-coated lenses are pretty much older than m.c. lenses and might need servicing (pricey...)

 

[Silverpixels5]

Depends on what you're going to be using it for. If you're gonna be taking a lot of shots outside in sunny conditions then go for the T*. Or if you're going to be using color film then go for the T*. If not then the old chrome lenses are actually a good value. Quality isn't bad by a long shot. My 80mm lens is the older chrome model and it performs great for flash photography and for outside as long as something isn't back lit by the sun.

 

[Eric Rose]

Don't be such a T's. Just kidding couldn't help myself. I have both T's and non T's. Can't really see any difference in the two, but then again I use a lens shade all the time.

 

[Mark Feldstein]

Howdy Matt: Unless you're really doing critical work in color, while T coatings are helpful to ensure consistent color quality from one frame to another, they're not absolutely necessary in work that doesn't require such stringent controls. When Zeiss came out with the *T coatings about 20-25 years ago (yikes !) along with Hasselblad, they kind of touted the new multicoatings as a pretty big deal, one which sent some photographers racing for the dealer to trade in their older C lenses without the improvements. Yes, the coating reduces flare which results in slightly better color saturation, sometimes cleaner whites and purer blacks and also a reduction in ghosting. And, if you're backlighting a shot T lenses will help counteract light bouncing off the iris diaphragm producing a 5 pointed star effect. The other improvement in T's is that their shutter blades and diaphragm leaves have a dull black finish to prevent internal lens reflections.

As Eric pointed out, if you use a properly sized lens hood or pro shade, even shooting outdoors, C lenses perform admirably and unless you're really shooting strongly back-lit scenes, say a sunset, flare, glare, etc. should be minimized and T coatings sure aren't a guarantee against those problems anyway. I have both an older 80mm C and a T. IMHO, with a little warming filter and the proper shade, the C performs extremely well and I use it indoors quite a lot. I shoot with the T Planar out of convenience for filter sizes to my other T lenses.

One other thing to consider is that the C lenses accept a different size filter, like a 50 bayonet vs. the 60 bayonet for most of the T lenses (other than the 350 and 5oomm, as I recall). So, if you plan to get a 150mm Sonnar C, it might be worthwhile for you to get the 150mm *T if your filters, rings, and pro or other shades are the 60mm bayonet variety, or stepped down to the 60 bay.

David Odess, who's a factory trained Hassie tech with a lot of experience, has springs, iris blades, pc contacts, etc., available for refurbishing the older C lenses. http://www.david-odess.com.
Take it light.
Mark

 

[Claire Senft]

It has been a while since I have shot with Hassleblad..20+ years. At the time I had a 500C with an 80mm Planar, a 60mm F4 Distagon and a 150mm Sonnar all in chrome and with Compur Shutters. I expanded my set with buying a 500ELM and an 80mm black T*Planar This lens also had the Compur shutter. I always used a Hassleblad compendium with these lenses. As far as flare was concerned the (2) Planars worked equally well.

The only problems that I had with Hassleblad lenses were with the Compur shutters. It can get cold in Milwaukee, especially at the lakefront. In cold weather use the Compur shutters were prone to hanging up. It would take 50 1980 dollars at Camera Repair Service in Milwaukee to correct this. Much more was charged by Hassleblad. This happened to me more than once. Of course Hasslewblad at that time recommended winterizing your shutters. I do not find that having a shutter that requires maintenance for cold weather use at or above 0ºF to be a desirablefeature. Never did I have a shutter problem during warm weather usage of these lenses.

I believe, but am not sure, that the Copal shutters have eliminated this cold weather problem.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE YOUR HASSLEBLAD IN COLD WEATHER THEN THE COMPUR SHUTTERS ARE GOING TO BE A PAIN IN THE ASS.

 

[Matt5791]

Thanks for the replies!

Well I'm unlikely to be using the hasselblad in anything below freezing - but I will bear that advice in mind.

Sounds like the T* is part improvement and part marketing to get photographers at the time to buy new lenses.

Still, I like the idea of the T* and I will probably look to buy one over the non T* because the extra cost is not enourmous.

Thanks,

Matt

 

[André E.C.]

Thanks for the replies!

Sounds like the T* is part improvement and part marketing to get photographers at the time to buy new lenses.

Matt

??????????????????????!

The improvement of image quality achieved with single-layer coatings on lens elements/prisms was increased even further by depositing several different layers on the optics, was surely a marketing manouver!
Ridiculous!

Cheers

André

 

[gnord]

Stars and diffraction

I think you will find that the '5 pointed star' is primarily a diffraction effect, noticable at smaller apertures from 'point' sources. This is because diffraction increases as th aperture gets smaller, the comparative illumination of the film is reduced more in comparisos, and also because point sources are more 'coherent' so more apt to produce constructive interfernce.

Multiple reflections post-aperture may serve to amplify the effect, by dispersing the point radially, which is a benefit of better coatings, but they are not caused by light bouncing off the iris.

Light reflected of the front of the iris and re-reflected back into the lens will increase flare, and ghosts, so what you say is still valid with regard to lower reflectivity of the iris, only that alone is not going to reduce the pointy star thing, which can never be completely eliminated.

Having said that, modern coatings are as good as these older coatings, in terms of reflection control, but to get precise colour control you still need to carefully control coating thickness, as this determines the exact wavelenght at which refelectance is at a minimum, and hence the residual colour tint.

However I doubt most people would be able to spot the differnce in side-by-side comparisons. Certainly when these coatings were developed, unless you were very carefult to maintain absolute consistency of processing, you would lose all benefit from the coating control.

Howdy Matt: Unless you're really doing critical work in color, while T coatings are helpful to ensure consistent color quality from one frame to another, they're not absolutely necessary in work that doesn't require such stringent controls. When Zeiss came out with the *T coatings about 20-25 years ago (yikes !) along with Hasselblad, they kind of touted the new multicoatings as a pretty big deal, one which sent some photographers racing for the dealer to trade in their older C lenses without the improvements. Yes, the coating reduces flare which results in slightly better color saturation, sometimes cleaner whites and purer blacks and also a reduction in ghosting. And, if you're backlighting a shot T lenses will help counteract light bouncing off the iris diaphragm producing a 5 pointed star effect. The other improvement in T's is that their shutter blades and diaphragm leaves have a dull black finish to prevent internal lens reflections.

As Eric pointed out, if you use a properly sized lens hood or pro shade, even shooting outdoors, C lenses perform admirably and unless you're really shooting strongly back-lit scenes, say a sunset, flare, glare, etc. should be minimized and T coatings sure aren't a guarantee against those problems anyway. I have both an older 80mm C and a T. IMHO, with a little warming filter and the proper shade, the C performs extremely well and I use it indoors quite a lot. I shoot with the T Planar out of convenience for filter sizes to my other T lenses.

One other thing to consider is that the C lenses accept a different size filter, like a 50 bayonet vs. the 60 bayonet for most of the T lenses (other than the 350 and 5oomm, as I recall). So, if you plan to get a 150mm Sonnar C, it might be worthwhile for you to get the 150mm *T if your filters, rings, and pro or other shades are the 60mm bayonet variety, or stepped down to the 60 bay.

David Odess, who's a factory trained Hassie tech with a lot of experience, has springs, iris blades, pc contacts, etc., available for refurbishing the older C lenses. http://www.david-odess.com.
Take it light.
Mark

 

[Sirius Glass]

??????????????????????!

The improvement of image quality achieved with single-layer coatings on lens elements/prisms was increased even further by depositing several different layers on the optics, was surely a marketing manouver!
Ridiculous!

Cheers

André

No, not really. Multicoatings act to reduce the reflection back from the glass surface and thus reduce ghosting and flares. This is not a marketing manuever.

Steve

 

[jamie]

Keep in mind that one difference is that between non-T* and T* coated lenses and another one is the difference between C (Compur shutter) and CF (Prontor shutter) lenses. There are those C lenses without T*-coating (silver) and those that have it (black). All CF lenses have T* coating.

Anyways, I would definitely buy a 150mm CF instead of a C lens. The 150mm is probably one of the cheapest CF lenses you can get at the moment and you don't save a whole lot of money by buying a C.
I used to have a 150mm C but when the shutter got sticky I decided to invest into a CF instead of having the old one fixed. The CF handles flare a lot better than the C. I like shooting into the sun and having a little bit of flare in some of my shots but with the C lens that's not possible as the large amount of flare in these situations makes it hard to see anything in the finder.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have the f/4 50mm, f/2.8 80mm, f/4 150mm and the f/5.6 250mm lenses all CF and all with B60 filters. I do not plan on shooting digital or the 200/2000 series and therefore passed on the CFi and CFE lenses for now.

Steve

 

[Hazza]

I think coating is not the most important aspect
C lenses still had coatings
I agree using a hood would render same result

 

[Sirius Glass]

Some of the springs in the C lenses are hard to get so repair and maintenance can become a problem. I have two C lenses because the price was too good to pass up. I personally do not like the ergonomics of the C lenses, but as others posted, if you are going to be photographing towards the sun or other bright lights, the T* lenses have significantly less flare than the non T* lenses.

One important point though is that most non T* lenses use B50 filters and most T* lenses use B60 filters. Filters are expensive, so it is wise to stick with one or the other and not have to buy two sets of filters. In my case I have the C Fisheye, which only uses its own filters and the 500mm C lens which requires its own filters whether it is a T* or not.