HC-110 life times & dilutions + fixer / stopper brands + film speed + develop speed

Jessestr · Apr 14, 2014

Hey

I have 3 big questions to ask..

HC-110 life times

I got my HC-110 yesterday and looked for the dilutions in the sheet. I mixed it (1:7 - B). I didn't see you have to dilute it first, and then dilute the dilution for getting the actual working solution.
So I mixed myself 1.5 L (B dilution) which should be diluted again (1:31 - B dilution) to work with right? Correct me if wrong.
So I have done the "PREPARING WORKING SOLUTIONS FROM STOCK SOLUTION" which says 1:7. What do I have to do to make a working solution?

So I heard the life times of HC-110 in it's sirup form is about 4 years, so when I mix 1:7 with the sirup to get a concentrate, how long does it last?

Fixer & stopper brand differences

Is there much difference in brand on stopper & fixer? As I am now using amaloco fixer & stopper, but the shop I'm using right now doesn't sell that. I want to get Ilford or Agfa, will the results be different?

Film speed & Develop speed

I hear a lot of things about this kind of developers increase the film speed and some decrease them. But what are the effects of it on the actual rol? Lets say I have 2x Tri-x 400, shot at 400 and perfectly exposed. One roll in a film speed slowing developer and one in a film speed gaining developer, what will be the difference?

Many thanks

Kind regards
Jesse

Gerald C Koch · Apr 14, 2014

Read the following site for information on HC-110.

http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

ann · Apr 14, 2014

Use this as a one shot developer, and only mix as needed, i.e. solution b will be 1 oz to 31 oz to make a 32 oz solution. the covington site will give you all sorts of infomration.

The difference between stop bath, not much imho

there are difference in fixer's , which create a time differences, i favor ilford myself.

You need to test for your equipment and conditions to really understand the differences.

Jessestr · Apr 14, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
Read the following site for information on HC-110.

http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

That's where I looked. But I got confused with the dilutions.

MattKing · Apr 14, 2014

Gerald's link is excellent.

When you buy HC-110, it is in the form of a concentrated syrup (the "concentrate" or the "syrup"). When you actually develop the film, you use a working solution, which you get to by diluting the syrup to whatever dilution you choose (e.g. dilution "B").

You can either:
1) make a "stock" solution by diluting the syrup 1 + 3 (meaning 1 part syrup plus 3 parts water), and then further diluting the stock to make a working solution. If you are intending to use a dilution "B" working solution, you need to dilute the stock (not the syrup) 1 + 7; or
2) go straight to a working solution, by diluting the syrup (no stock involved). If you are intending to use a dilution "B" working solution, you need to dilute the syrup 1 + 31.

Most of us here use the second method - no stock involved. That permits you to leave most of your unused developer in syrup form, which means that it is very long lasting.

The diluting first to stock method is very useful if you are processing large quantities of film, or are using something like a deep tank system with replenishment. Commercial labs and group darkrooms are more likely to use this method.

The "stock" solution doesn't keep nearly as well as the syrup. So unless you see yourself shooting 20 rolls of film in the next week, don't make up the 400 - 600 ml of stock you would use to develop it (depends on your tank size).

Jessestr · Apr 14, 2014

Thanks. So I did it wrong. When I want to use the developer now. It's diluted 1+7 right now (1.5L) how much water should I add to make it a working solution (1+31). Like (31-7) 24 parts of water? To actually use it? Else I have to throw away the current solution and that's a money waste.

MattKing said:
Gerald's link is excellent.

When you buy HC-110, it is in the form of a concentrated syrup (the "concentrate" or the "syrup"). When you actually develop the film, you use a working solution, which you get to by diluting the syrup to whatever dilution you choose (e.g. dilution "B").

You can either:
1) make a "stock" solution by diluting the syrup 1 + 3 (meaning 1 part syrup plus 3 parts water), and then further diluting the stock to make a working solution. If you are intending to use a dilution "B" working solution, you need to dilute the stock (not the syrup) 1 + 7; or
2) go straight to a working solution, by diluting the syrup (no stock involved). If you are intending to use a dilution "B" working solution, you need to dilute the syrup 1 + 31.

Most of us here use the second method - no stock involved. That permits you to leave most of your unused developer in syrup form, which means that it is very long lasting.

The diluting first to stock method is very useful if you are processing large quantities of film, or are using something like a deep tank system with replenishment. Commercial labs and group darkrooms are more likely to use this method.

The "stock" solution doesn't keep nearly as well as the syrup. So unless you see yourself shooting 20 rolls of film in the next week, don't make up the 400 - 600 ml of stock you would use to develop it (depends on your tank size).

MattKing · Apr 14, 2014

With respect to the question about stop bath and fixer, you can safely use different brands and types with each other. Just be sure that you follow the instructions that apply to the brand and type you are actually using. For fixer, I definitely recommend the faster, liquid "rapid" fixers because they are more convenient, and it is easier to obtain them in a non-hardening form.

With respect to your question about speed and developers, it is a favourite subject among many of us here on APUG .

A reference to the "speed" of a film and developer combination is essentially a reference to how sensitive the combination is to low levels of light. If a combination has higher "speed", you will likely see a slight bit more detail in the shadows of your scene or, alternatively, you will be able to get away with a slightly higher shutter speed in the same lighting conditions.

So if you are developing the two identically exposed rolls in the two developers, one may show more shadow detail than the other. But it will also look slightly different in the mid-tones and the highlights, and the contrast in the resulting negatives may also be different in the various tones.

The differences will be small, but they are there. A careful and experienced photographer and darkroom worker can usually learn to recognize and take advantage of those differences. But they are definitely subtle, so it is probably best not to worry about them until you have more experience.

Hope this helps, and you have fun!

Gerald C Koch · Apr 14, 2014

Jessestr said:
Thanks. So I did it wrong. When I want to use the developer now. It's diluted 1+7 right now (1.5L) how much water should I add to make it a working solution (1+31). Like (31-7) 24 parts of water? To actually use it? Else I have to throw away the current solution and that's a money waste.

To make dilution B from your 1+7 solution you would dilute it 1+3. So in essence the dilutions are reversed in order from what is normally done. There may be a problem in that the 1+7 solution may not keep. So best to use it as soon as possible.

The many dilutions given for HC-110 are rather confusing but there was a reason behind Kodak's method. Many people just use this developer like Rodinal and dilute the concentrate 1+49 and use the times for dilution E.

For your current level of experience just shoot films at box speed and develop according to the film's directions. Later when you have more experience you may diverge from the instructions.

MattKing · Apr 14, 2014

Jessestr said:
Thanks. So I did it wrong. When I want to use the developer now. It's diluted 1+7 right now (1.5L) how much water should I add to make it a working solution (1+31). Like (31-7) 24 parts of water? To actually use it? Else I have to throw away the current solution and that's a money waste.

The answer is simple arithmetic, but we will understand if it doesn't seem that simple to someone new to this .

But before I give you the answer, I need to be sure that I understand exactly how you arrived at your 1.5L.

Normally, I would have expected you to take 200 ml of syrup and add 1400 ml of water in order to end up with 1600 (not 1500) ml of dilute stock.

How much syrup did you actually use?

And how much working solution does your developing tank require to cover the film you are developing? In addition, what is the maximum amount that your tank holds? I ask these questions because the advice I'll give will be on how to mix individual batches of developer.

By the way, unless you have 30 or so rolls to develop, you probably will end up wasting at least some of that 1.5L - the dilute stock doesn't keep for very long.

MattKing · Apr 14, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
To make dilution B from your 1+7 solution you would dilute it 1+3. So in essence the dilutions are reversed in order from what is normally done. There may be a problem in that the 1+7 solution may not keep. So best to use it as soon as possible.

Gerald is right, but see my earlier post about confirming whether your 1.5L is actually at a 1 + 7 dilution.

Kodak says that working solutions of dilution B should keep between 1 - 3 months in a tightly capped bottle. So your custom dilute stock should last a month at least.

Here is the Kodak publication (J24): http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j24/j24.pdf

Jessestr · Apr 14, 2014

Thanks !

Gerald C Koch said:
To make dilution B from your 1+7 solution you would dilute it 1+3. So in essence the dilutions are reversed in order from what is normally done. There may be a problem in that the 1+7 solution may not keep. So best to use it as soon as possible.

The many dilutions given for HC-110 are rather confusing but there was a reason behind Kodak's method. Many people just use this developer like Rodinal and dilute the concentrate 1+49 and use the times for dilution E.

For your current level of experience just shoot films at box speed and develop according to the film's directions. Later when you have more experience you may diverge from the instructions.

How I got to 1.5L? Well simply. It's not my bottle of HC-110 syrup. I got some of a friend and I got two bottles of 75cl which makes 1.5L.
So I got 187.5 ml HC-110 and the rest is purified water.

My tank is 300 ml for one roll and 500 ml for two. (Paterson Super System 4)

MattKing said:
The answer is simple arithmetic, but we will understand if it doesn't seem that simple to someone new to this .

But before I give you the answer, I need to be sure that I understand exactly how you arrived at your 1.5L.

Normally, I would have expected you to take 200 ml of syrup and add 1400 ml of water in order to end up with 1600 (not 1500) ml of dilute stock.

How much syrup did you actually use?

And how much working solution does your developing tank require to cover the film you are developing? In addition, what is the maximum amount that your tank holds? I ask these questions because the advice I'll give will be on how to mix individual batches of developer.

By the way, unless you have 30 or so rolls to develop, you probably will end up wasting at least some of that 1.5L - the dilute stock doesn't keep for very long.

MattKing · Apr 14, 2014

Jessestr said:
Thanks !
How I got to 1.5L? Well simply. It's not my bottle of HC-110 syrup. I got some of a friend and I got two bottles of 75cl which makes 1.5L.
So I got 187.5 ml HC-110 and the rest is purified water.

My tank is 300 ml for one roll and 500 ml for two. (Paterson Super System 4)

Good, with the corrected volume for the syrup (187.5 ml vs 200 ml) we know that you have a true 1 + 7 dilution stock. You can call that your custom "Jesse" stock .

If you are doing one roll of film at a time, to make up 300 ml of dilution B developer just take 75 ml of your "Jesse" stock and dilute it 1 + 3 to get 300 ml of working solution.

If you are doing two rolls of film at a time, to make up 500 ml of dilution B developer just take 125 ml of your "Jesse" stock and dilute it 1 + 3 to get 500 ml of working solution.

Your "Jesse" stock will last longer in full, capped bottles. If you don't forsee developing 20 rolls in the next month, you may want to split the 1.5 L you have into more, smaller bottles. For full bottles, when you get past three months you should consider discarding the remainder. For partially full bottles, anything after one month may be a problem.

The developer will darken over time. If it gets really dark, it needs to be discarded.

Be sure to have fun!

Jessestr · Apr 14, 2014

Actually quite funny. Thanks for the dilutions. Don't know how you got to 1 + 3 though.. Could you explain (so I can follow the calculation).
I have two bottles of 750ml now, almost no air inside. Bottles are glass and dark (brown), stored in a dark closet.

MattKing said:
Good, with the corrected volume for the syrup (187.5 ml vs 200 ml) we know that you have a true 1 + 7 dilution stock. You can call that your custom "Jesse" stock .

If you are doing one roll of film at a time, to make up 300 ml of dilution B developer just take 75 ml of your "Jesse" stock and dilute it 1 + 3 to get 300 ml of working solution.

If you are doing two rolls of film at a time, to make up 500 ml of dilution B developer just take 125 ml of your "Jesse" stock and dilute it 1 + 3 to get 500 ml of working solution.

Your "Jesse" stock will last longer in full, capped bottles. If you don't forsee developing 20 rolls in the next month, you may want to split the 1.5 L you have into more, smaller bottles. For full bottles, when you get past three months you should consider discarding the remainder. For partially full bottles, anything after one month may be a problem.

The developer will darken over time. If it gets really dark, it needs to be discarded.

Be sure to have fun!

Gerald C Koch · Apr 14, 2014

Don't know how you got to 1 + 3 though.. Could you explain (so I can follow the calculation).

Well a dilution of 1+7 makes a total of 8 units of developer. Dilution B makes 32 units so the 1+7 dilution must be diluted by a factor of 4 (1+3).

MattKing · Apr 14, 2014

Jessestr said:
Actually quite funny. Thanks for the dilutions. Don't know how you got to 1 + 3 though.. Could you explain (so I can follow the calculation).
I have two bottles of 750ml now, almost no air inside. Bottles are glass and dark (brown), stored in a dark closet.

I'll do my best. I will use ounces, because when Kodak developed HC-110 they were working with ounces and US quarts (32 ounces) and the numbers and ratios flow from that fact.

Dilution B is one part syrup plus thirty-one parts water (1 + 31)

So if you are trying to make 32 ounces of dilution B working solution, you need one ounce of syrup.

When you made your "Jesse" stock you added one part syrup to seven parts water. If you had started with one ounce syrup, you would have ended up with eight ounces "Jesse" stock.

To make the total of your working solution 32 ounces, you need to add 24 more ounces of water - three times as much liquid as you already have - also known as 1 + 3.

The way the "formula" works is B = (1 + 31) = 32 = 8 x 4 = (1 + 7) x (1 + 3)

You can use it for other dilutions as well. If you were aiming at dilution A, which is 1 + 15 = 16 you would take your "Jesse" stock (1 + 7) and further dilute it (1 +1): (1 + 7) x (1 + 1) = 16

Jessestr · Apr 14, 2014

Oh, stupid I missed something so easy. Thanks for the help guys!

StoneNYC · Apr 14, 2014

Welcome! Have fun! Glad you got your answer, and hope your images come out well

HC-110 life times & dilutions + fixer / stopper brands + film speed + develop speed

Jessestr

Gerald C Koch

ann

Jessestr

MattKing

Moderator

Jessestr

MattKing

Moderator

Gerald C Koch

MattKing

Moderator

MattKing

Moderator

Jessestr

MattKing

Moderator

Jessestr

Gerald C Koch

MattKing

Moderator

Jessestr

StoneNYC

HC-110 life times & dilutions + fixer / stopper brands + film speed + develop speed

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency