Help disassemble an Ilex No. 5 Universal Synchro

[aconbere]

Hi all,

My friend sent me a couple Ilex No. 5 universal synchro shutters that weren’t running to see if I could bring them back to life.

I’ve found a paucity of service documentation online and so with the full knowledge of making a bad decision i plowed forward.

So far so good. These are not complicated shutters, very similar in design to the old compurs. But I’ve found myself a little stumped.

I’ve gotten down to the base plate, lifted out some screws that seemed like they probably held it to the case and expected it to lift out… and it didn’t. It’s not clear to
me if at this point I am doing it wrong or if I should be disassembling the back?

Any and all advice welcome!

 

[mshchem]

Put it back together and try splashing it in Ronsonol lighter fluid.

 

[aconbere]

Put it back together and try splashing it in Ronsonol lighter fluid.

No need at this point! I’m sure it’ll run if I clean the parts and reassemble. No need to risk moving junk around that way.

Question is just how to dig deeper and achieve a more complete cleaning.

 

[film4Me]

Can you post a pic of the back of the shutter? There may be more screws to remove. Then the cocking handle could present a problem, how to remove the plate with the handle still attached.

 

[aconbere]

Can you post a pic of the back of the shutter? There may be more screws to remove. Then the cocking handle could present a problem, how to remove the plate what the handle still attached.

There’s a lot that can be disassembled from the back. But whether that’s the appropriate strategy depends on how it’s assembled! Some shutters if you open them from the back you end up with a mess of parts and springs that fall out of place.

Agreed about the shutter trigger! The base of the retard gear train appears to be screwed from underneath the main plate. I’m hoping there are hints underneath, which presupposes disassembling from the back … which is why I’m here.

 

[film4Me]

Am I seeing a screwdriver slot at the rear of the knurled knob on the cocking lever? It might screw out, leaving the lever to pull out of the slot in the casing, by lifting the plate up on the opposite side and removing the plate out of the casing.

 

[aconbere]

Am I seeing a screwdriver slot at the rear of the knurled knob on the cocking lever? It might screw out, leaving the lever to pull out of the slot in the casing, by lifting the plate up on the opposite side and removing the plate out of the casing.

Yeah the knob should unscrew (haven’t tried but there’s a screw). There’s not enough room to lift it off the post until something else is done though. Possibly like you said lifting the case away.

 

[mshchem]

I've "fixed" 3 or 4 of these great old shutters with nothing more than "good old, banned by Montreal Protocol" Kodak movie film cleaner (CFC-113+Heptane) seemed like once the shutter blades were not gummed up these would run nicely.
I was always happy to get functional without breaking something

 

[F4U]

Determine if it has any plastic or rubber parts. If not, remove the painted face plate and drop the whole thing in an ultrasonic cleaner. then lube with a hypodermic needle. Don't expect the shutter to work with great accuracy. Springs get tired after 70 years .You'll need a shutter tester. Get one of the $42 ebay Japan jobs. Write down your speeds on a card attached to the back of the camera. Problem solved, maybe better than when it was new. I have a theory that iris shutters weren't anywhere near accurate 6 months after they left the factory, no matter who manufactured them.It's simply not possible to split 1 second of time up into tiny fractions with mechanical devices and expect accuracy to be a lasting thing.

 

[aconbere]

Determine if it has any plastic or rubber parts. If not, remove the painted face plate and drop the whole thing in an ultrasonic cleaner. then lube with a hypodermic needle. Don't expect the shutter to work with great accuracy. Springs get tired after 70 years .You'll need a shutter tester. Get one of the $42 ebay Japan jobs. Write down your speeds on a card attached to the back of the camera. Problem solved, maybe better than when it was new. I have a theory that iris shutters weren't anywhere near accurate 6 months after they left the factory, no matter who manufactured them.It's simply not possible to split 1 second of time up into tiny fractions with mechanical devices and expect accuracy to be a lasting thing.

These shutters were meant to be run dry. But I do have a shutter tester I’ll be using once everything is out and cleaned

 

[aconbere]

I've "fixed" 3 or 4 of these great old shutters with nothing more than "good old, banned by Montreal Protocol" Kodak movie film cleaner (CFC-113+Heptane) seemed like once the shutter blades were not gummed up these would run nicely.
I was always happy to get functional without breaking something

The shutter blades run smooth enough, the retard gear train was sticky as well as the lever that moved the shutter blade actuating ring. But the whole thing is dirty and gritty and should be cleaned.

 

[F4U]

I'm sure you'll do fine, although I don't believe the "run dry" theory. And over-oiling is certain failure also. Oil is also glue, when springs cannot overcome starting positions at a high ratio.

 

[aconbere]

So the trick was from the back. The aperture adjustment ring had a screw to the base plate.

Removing the screw allowed enough play to remove the shutter trigger and the whole plate came out cleanly.

Unfortunately the next set of screws are damaged and I can’t safely remove them without completely stripping them. So that’s as far as this cleaning will go.

 

[aconbere]

Everything besides the leafs went into the ultrasonic and were reassembled. Really a lovely shutter to work on, very simple but effective.

In the end I agree with @F4U and don’t believe that these were intended to be run dry (other than the aperture and shutter blades). Nothing is hard chrome on chrome, many bushings are brass on brass, etc. I gave all the bushings a touch of light machine oil, and a touch of grease on rubbing parts.

I haven’t measured the speeds yet but the shutter operates smoothly now and is certainly within a stop.

 

[retina_restoration]

Everything besides the leafs went into the ultrasonic and were reassembled. Really a lovely shutter to work on, very simple but effective.

In the end I agree with @F4U and don’t believe that these were intended to be run dry (other than the aperture and shutter blades). Nothing is hard chrome on chrome, many bushings are brass on brass, etc. I gave all the bushings a touch of light machine oil, and a touch of grease on rubbing parts.

I haven’t measured the speeds yet but the shutter operates smoothly now and is certainly within a stop.

Whenever possible, lubricate metal-to-metal moving parts with molybdenum disulfide (I use Rocol Dry Paste), rather than oils or greases. Molybdenum is applied as a very thin film and it provides superior lubrication for metal parts that rub, without volatile components evaporating and redepositing elsewhere, and unlike oils, it doesn't run where it's not wanted.