Help: What model Kodak Retina to buy?? (rangefinder model)

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TheToadMen

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I was at a photographic convention lately and some people there were carrying a Kodak Retina Rangefinder model. I want to get me one (if reasonably priced). But since I have no experience with these models - and they said not all models or lenses are as good - I would like to ask for your input.

What model should I get (I want a rangefinder) and what lens? Please your expert advise.
Thanks,
Bert from Holland
 

BrianShaw

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Look for a IIc or IIIc and plan on getting it overhauled. It has the best normal lens, and don't waste too much effort with the accessory lenses... they really are just too difficult to use.
 
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Chrismat

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I have both those cameras and they are great, but if you don't mind scale focusing for less money you could get something like the Retina 1b.
 

Brian Legge

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Try to get your hands on one if you can to see how the ergonomics work for you. They are great cameras but can be a little quirky to use. I got lucky and picked up a cheap IIIc. After seeing much acclaim about the IIa I had a chance to handle on. It turns out I found it more awkward to hold and decided to stick with the larger IIIc. Thats a personal decision though.

Either model - with any glass variation (though I'd look for a Xenon or Heligon) - can be an excellent user. Everything being equal, I'd buy the camera that was in the best condition.
 
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leicarfcam

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The two best models would be a IIa fixed lens 50mm f/2 Xenon lens or a IIIc/C with 50mm f/2 Xenon. The Xenar 50mm f/2.8 of the IIc is a fine lens but the Xenar's are best.

The IIIc/C models have interchangable front componant lens but can be a bit confusing except for the 50mm..

My personal favorite is the IIa..
 

mgb74

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If you wear glasses, you might find the viewfinder in the IIIc/C a real advantage.
 

msbarnes

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If you don't need it to be folding/compact, then you might want to consider the IIIs. The IIIs is a full-sized and the lenses are truly interchangeable. However, I have a IIIc because I value these cameras for compactness and portability.
 

elekm

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The knob wind Retina II is a good camera and prone to fewer problems because it doesn't have the shutter cocking rack of the later cameras. The Retina II requires you to tension the shutter separately.

However, as long as you find one in good shape, these can be on your list:

- Retina IIa: The lever-wind camera is small and has a great f/2.0 lens, although single-coated, I believe.

- Retina IIc/IIC: Has the slightly slower f/2.8 Xenon/Heligon and lacks a meter. I sort of like this model.

- Retina IIIc/IIIC: Integrated uncoupled selenium meter with the excellent f/2.0 Xenon/Heligon. The large "C" models have frame lines for the auxiliary telephoto and wide angle lenses and larger viewfinders.

- Retina IIS: Often overlooked, this is a smallish non-folding rangefinder with a very nice f/2.8 Xenar lens and coupled selenium meter.

If you're good at guessing distances, you could go for one of earlier folding cameras. You should know that the older cameras offered many different lenses and shutter combos. And you should also expect that all of these cameras might require some level of service from routine to total overhauls.
 

JPD

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As you are in Europe, I would strongly recommend the Retina IIc with Rodenstock Heligon 2,8/50.

I have found the Heligon 2,8/50 to be sharper than the Schneider Xenon and the 2/50 Heligon on the IIIc. I've had a couple of Retinas with these lenses and always found that the 2,8 Heligon is the sharpest.

My favorite Retinas at the moment are the IIc and Ib (with 2,8/50 Xenar, but without rangefinder).
 
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I like the compactness of my 1a

I like the compactness of my 1a. No meter. No range finder prism. Just a tiny view finder. So it is smaller than the II and the III and it fits in my pants pocket. Opinions - we all have ours. Get one and enjoy it.

Jim
 

Philip Wilson

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Sadly, I feel all Kodak Retinas have at least one flaw. Even the 111C has a horrid number lines in the viewfinder. I consider that Theonly two Retinas with really clear finders are the 1B last model and 11S. ( I discount later automatics and F series as they lack full range of speeds.) Sadly these two models lack the Xenon lens but I did manage to transplant one onto the 1B! The only rangefinder I could add was to the flash shoe! At the end of the day If you want the original Retina experience get a cheap 11c which is tiny folder and Learn toput up with small viewfinder.
 

guangong

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I have Retinas B, IIc and IIIc. I have the wide abc long lens attachments, but they are awkward and con only be fitted under very safe conditions, since front element must be removed and stored in special container and therefore not very flexible in the field.
As for which? I prefer the simplicity of the B. And the IIc.
If I were buying now, only at a rock bottom price. The ratchet, because of stresses already mentioning by others, will fail. This is a design fault of camera. Since the same piece must be replaced for practically every Retina repair, parts are difficult to find. The fellow in Australia who specializes in Retina has a good reputation, but you should be able to buy several just for the cost of shipping.
Nevertheless, the fit the hand like a glove.
 

Alan9940

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I have a Retina IIa and it's a fine camera with a great lens, but I ran only a few rolls through it and the winding lever, racheting thingy started having problems; camera is useless now. To have it repaired, if it can be repaired (those springs are getting quite scarce)--and the only place I know of that has the parts, etc is Retina Rescue--would cost me 3x what I paid for the camera. Maybe one day I'll break down and have it fixed.
 

BrianShaw

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The fellow in Australia who specializes in Retina has a good reputation, but you should be able to buy several just for the cost of shipping.

New Zealand.

the difference between buying old cameras over and over, and having a decent specimen fully restored is that the latter approach results in a fully reliable, just-like-new camera. If that’s what is desired... it’s worth the money. But as I can attest... it’s not an inexpensive approach.
 

removedacct1

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I own about 45 various Retina models, and each of them has its virtues.

As for the "ratchet failure" issue (I am pretty sure people are referring to the steel cocking rack driven by the wind lever) that is largely a myth. Yes, the cocking rack can be damaged, necessitating a repair, but this can only be damaged by winding the lever when the camera is in serious need of servicing (full of dirt and dried grease) or if the camera has reached the end of the roll of film and the user, unaware of this, forces the winding lever in spite of the fact that it doesn't want to go. If you do this, you will definitely damage the cocking rack. Its very hard steel, but it can only take so much abuse.

On the Retina IIa and Ia models, for a period during production, the accessory shoe was attached to the top housing by three screws from the INSIDE of the top cover! They abandoned this practice, favoring screws that went in from outside the cover. It was fairly common for one or more of those screws to work loose if the accessory shoe had been stressed (for example: dropping the camera with a flash attached) and the screws could end up in the gears that drive the cocking rack. If that happens, and the owner forces the winding lever - in spite of evidence that it was jammed - then you grind the screw into the gears and/or the cocking rack, which will also make an expensive repair necessary.

That said, I like all of my Retina cameras, each for a different reason. But for me, the "sweet spot" in the design and manufacture of the Kodak Retina would be the Retina IIa (with rangefinder built in, but no light meter) and to a lesser degree the IIIc/IIIC models, which have both a rangefinder and a selenium meter. On the IIIc/IIIC Retinas, the selenium cell almost always fails or becomes inaccurate, so its kind of arbitrary to choose this model over any other because it has a meter: odds are it won't be reliable. Many people find the IIIc/IIIC to be the best as a user camera, and I do enjoy mine a lot. The larger, brighter viewfinder of the IIIC ("big C") is definitely an advantage when using the camera. All of the lenses are excellent (for the time period, of course. Modern optics exceed the Xenon/Heligon in sharpness and contrast, as you would expect) so there are no "poor lenses" on any of the Retinas. But the early Retinas have a different lens design that has some optical properties that not everyone will appreciate (a bit of rushing at the outer edges when not stopped down, etc.)

A Retina IIa I just finished servicing last week:
Retina.IIa.jpg
 

BrianShaw

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After a trip to NZ... one of my most reliable and fun-to-shoot cameras!

AB396256-E383-447B-8B88-AC106E3F9AF3.jpeg
 

BrianShaw

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Yes, the cocking rack can be damaged, necessitating a repair, but this can only be damaged by winding the lever when the camera is in serious need of servicing (full of dirt and dried grease) or if the camera has reached the end of the roll of film and the user, unaware of this, forces the winding lever in spite of the fact that it doesn't want to go. If you do this, you will definitely damage the cocking rack. Its very hard steel, but it can only take so much abuse.

Amen.

I beg to differ about the meter, though. It’s not quite that profound of a concern.
 

removedacct1

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After a trip to NZ... one of my most reliable and fun-to-shoot cameras!

Ahh, the beautiful IIIC! I couldn't agree more. Chris Sherlock (In New Zealand: retinarescue.com) serviced my IIIC last year and it is a delight to use. Unfortunately, this model isn't often found for under $200 USD, and often goes for much more. But if you want just one Retina, its one of the very best.
 

MattKing

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Retina IIIc:
Coquitlam River002.jpg
 

btaylor

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I have been fascinated with the folding Retinas for years and finally bought a IIa and a IIIc on eBay. Both of them are in excellent condition and work perfectly. The precision feel (like Leica or Zeiss) is there. But I am old and wear glasses, I find the IIa viewfinder too small and squinty- same reason I can’t effectively use Leica LTM (and clone) type cameras. The IIIc is a different story big viewfinder and I prefer the look and feel (very smooth rounded edges. Unfortunately as much as admire them I am not going to use them much- just have too many 35mm rangefinders.
 

Willy T

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Ah, hear, hear - a rich, a gorgeous photograph. Another inspirational - aspirational - example from you.
 
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