Ilford Hypam vs Rapid Fixer

Sorrycharlie

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Just wondering if anyone had experience with Ilford’s Hypam fixer. I’m quickly realising that buying the 500ml bottles of rapid fixer is not very cost effective (at least in Australia). The 5 litre bottle of Hypam seems like the most cost effective way.

Does it work as well for paper and also can I use it for film also?
 

MattKing

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Hypam is great for both film and paper. It works as well with other specialty materials like X-ray film. It is functionally equivalent to Ilford Rapid Fixer, save and except with Hypam you are able to add hardener, whereas Rapid Fixer cannot be used with hardener.
With most modern films and papers, there is no need for added hardener.
The only problem with a 5 litre bottle of fixer concentrate is that it is possible to have it last too long - a partially used bottle can start to sulfur out if you keep it that way too long.
Ilford says that an opened bottle lasts six months. My experience has been that it lasts longer than that.
Here is a link to the datasheet: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1866/product/570/
 

mshchem

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I inherited a 5 L bottle of Hypam, a friend I helped develop a backlog of film left it behind. I've had it open for at least a year, seems to keep well. I've used about 3 liters.
 

138S

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You may mix your own RF...

Here you have formulas: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/is-there-a-diy-home-brew-b-w-film-fixer.116227/#post-1536950

Working solution:

water 50°C / 120°F 750 ml
ammonium thiosulfate 120 g
sodium sulfite anhydrous 15 g
sodium carbonate monohydrate 0.7 g
cold water to make 1,000 ml

ammonium thiosulfate is the main cost in this rapid fixer, for around $6 you may make 10L of fixer working solution: https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...m=a2700.7724838.2017115.26.7c6e150bILB5jn&s=p
 

images39

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I used to use Ilford Rapid fixer (5L jugs), until I discovered and tried Hypam, which costs less. Works just fine.

Dale
 

RalphLambrecht

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Ilford Hypam is a rapid fixer and well-suited for film and paper.
 

tezzasmall

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Hypam fixer is also the one that I've used for film and papers over a lot of years.

And I too buy it (and multigrade developer) in 5 litre containers, as you basically pay for 2 litres and get the other 3 for free = in the UK anyway.

As for shelf life, I have just come to the bottom of my last ordered bottle of both, about 10 years since ordering it (I'm not a big user of fixer btw, so others will probably say they use 5 litres in a month etc.) Both chemicals remained fine until the end, with the fixer having the start of a little bit of sulphuring out at the bottom of the bottle.

To give it a good shelf life, I bought some quite thick ONE LITRE plastic bottles, made for chemicals like this. In fact the 5L bottle of fixer and these bottles look and feel very similar in thickness and weight. Each bottle (of fix and developer) was then topped up with a dose of Tetenal Protectan Spray when first put into the smaller bottles, and then another squirt after decanting any out.

Terry S
 

Smudger

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koraks

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MOQ is listed as 1kg. But however nice the prices seem on alibaba, it's a bit of a different story when it comes to actually doing business. You'll find that the listed prices are not for small amounts of, say, a few kg, and shipping costs can easily amount to $60 for a small order. You're better off looking for local sources for materials like these. Ammonium thiosulfate is carried by some traders as a liquid concentrate as fertilizer; sometimes as a solid too. Getting it directly from China makes sense if you need a metric ton or so.
 

Anon Ymous

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Yes, you certainly don't need to order from Alibaba and China in general. I got mine as a liquid fertiliser and it cost me 15€ for 5l, not bad at all. I make a rapid fixer concentrate by adding

5g EDTA-2Na
25g Sodium sulfite
25g Sodium metabisulfite in
1l of ammonium thiosulfate 58% concentrate

This fixer is very mildly acidic, in the pH 6,5 to 7 range and is diluted 1+4 with water.
 

John51

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Sorrycharlie said:
Ohhhhhh jjeeeesus don’t give me ideas!! I’m already down this rabbit hole far enough
Click to expand...

Why only one rabbit hole when you can build a warren?

Once you've got sodium sulfite, you only need Metol to make Kodak D23. With Borax, you can make Divided D23. Many permutations of DD23, including Barry Thorntons Two Bath, aka BTTB.
 

138S

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This is also a great way. Perhaps a problem with fertilizer is that impurities may be unknown, so some precautions may be useful. A share of the photo business has always been knowing what impurities can be allowed in the chem, as purity is expensive.
 

Anon Ymous

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Yes, my thiosulfate solution was nice and clear, without anything suspicious stuff floating, nor precipitate. Given the manufacturing process, the most likely impurity is some ammonium sulfite, which is probably not a problem.
 

138S

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I'd like to add that the best economy with fixer is obtained with a two bath procedure, in that way we may completely exhaust the fixer while ensuring a perfect job, as the second bath is fresh fixer. It takes the same time, we do the half in each bath, and when we dump the 1st bath we move the 2nd bath as first bath, that is still mostly fresh.

For an extremly good fixing we may even make a water rinse between 1st and 2nd bathes, in that way we don't carry silver rich fixer to the second bath.

Best of double bath is peace of mind, we always ensure a perfect job, with single bath we always have a doubt about how good is fixer, as exhaustion depends on how much halide the negatives had.

Probably first one has to do with fixing is exploring the two bath way, this has more economic impact that fixer price. Well, if ensuring a perfect job is cheaper then why not?
 

Patrick Robert James

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I use Hypam. To prevent the sulphur issue I spritz some butane in the bottle before I put the cap back on. I started doing it years ago when I read that fixer does that when it is in contact with oxygen, or at least that is what I remember. Could be wrong. I've had large quantities of fixer go bad on me before I started doing it. That is just a waste...

I also use it 1+9 for prints. I usually fix until the next print goes in the fix, so a few minutes. I don't put a lot of prints through the fix so it isn't an issue. Never had any problems either. So if you want to save some moolah, 1+9 works well. I also mix up a gallon at a time, and use butane to keep that fresh.

For film I use TF-4.
 

Mr Bill

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138S said:
For an extremly good fixing we may even make a water rinse between 1st and 2nd bathes, in that way we don't carry silver rich fixer to the second bath.
Click to expand...

Well, from a silver-handling/effluent it would be better to not put water in the middle. An even better way would be to use a 3-stage fixer. If you use water in the middle it collects silver from the "dirty" first fixer, and becomes much harder to recover.

The ideal two-bath fix system, from the standpoint of 1) collecting as much silver as possible (more or less), and 2) keeping silver out of the waste stream, is to replenish it at an appropriate rate. AND to squeegee the photo material between tanks. If the replenishment rate is significantly higher than the carryover then you get all the benefits. The surplus volume from the first fixer can go into an electrolytic silver recovery system, where the higher the silver concentration the better off you are. These things get better with a three-bath system, and on and on, but at some point you have to say, well, this is good enough.
 

138S

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Bill, this is an interesting point because the dirty fixer carried (by paper/film) may deliver some precipitations in water, but let me ask next:

> Wouldn't potential precipitations totally disolve again in second fixer bath ?

> A 2 seconds rinse in the middle will only work as an squeegee, removing dirty fixer drops on paper?film with plain water not penetrating much in the emulsion.

My guess is that the water bath in the middle would not be bad because any precipitation would be reversed in the second fixing bath, I ask, isn't this right ?
 

Mr Bill

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138S said:
Bill, this is an interesting point because the dirty fixer carried (by paper/film) may deliver some precipitations in water, but let me ask next:

> Wouldn't potential precipitations totally disolve again in second fixer bath ?
Click to expand...

Hi, with respect to the silver compounds IN THE PAPER I believe this is true, and there is no problem with the paper itself. What I am talking about is the silver that has gotten into the washwater, and what are you gonna do with that water?

To be clear, what I'm saying is that adding a water rinse between the fixer tanks has now created an extra volume of waste material that contains silver. And the problem is, how are you gonna dispose of that water?

Before adding that rinse step all of the silver removed from the paper was contained in the fixer. (Except for the relatively small amount that escapes into the final wash water, which will happen in either case.) If you are trying to prevent silver from getting into the environment, it's a good thing to keep as much as possible in the fixer. It's easier to recover silver from fixer than from washwater.
 
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Ian Grant

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Hypam and Ilford Rapid Fixer are essentially very similar, Hypam is usually more expensive and has extra buffering to allow the use of a hardener, (You can't use a hardener with Ilford Rapid Fixer).

Ian
 

138S

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Mr Bill said:
Hi, with respect to the silver compounds IN THE PAPER I believe this is true, and there is no problem with the paper itself. What I am talking about is the silver that has gotten into the washwater, and what are you gonna do with that water?
Click to expand...

That water in the intermediate bath would be dumped each sesion, or on any doubt, the amount of silver in it would be insignificant.
 
OP
OP

Sorrycharlie

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Ok so I’m thinking of pulling the trigger on a 5L bottle of Hypam and also Multigrade developer. If I was looking at using both of these in say 6 -8months would the best way to store them just be in the 5 litre containers they come in or perhaps a better idea to decant them into smaller 500ml bottles to reduce oxygen contact and use as needed?
 
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