I'm Choked! OverPaying for Duty + taxes + broker fees on Lens Shipped From Japan

koraks

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MattKing said:
The duty charged is supposed to be related to the fair market value of an item, sold/acquired at arms length, in the country it was acquired.
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Yes, but there's considerable room for debate on what constitutes a fair market value, and how such a fair market value can/should be determined.

MattKing said:
As a matter of practicality, absent any other concerns, customs officials will usually rely on what appears to be a commercial invoice when levying duty, so a customs broker will normally present that invoice as confirmation of that value.
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Provided an invoice is present and easily found on the surface of the box. With inexperienced senders, this is often a problem as they may only include a packing slip that's incompletely filled out (otherwise the item value + shipping cost + item description would be known to customs and the whole routine would be simpler) or even no slip at all. This will result in a situation where the clearance officer needs to make a call on item valuation. Given the volume of items to be processed, this tends to be a quick & dirty process. It's not like there'll be an appraisals officer having a cup of coffee, thinking about possible valuations, doing some online search to see list prices, etc. Given a clearance fee in the order of magnitude of $15 it's evident that the whole process can't take more than a few minutes at most, and needs to be automated to the highest feasible degree.
 

Ian Grant

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I have an ongoing case with the UK Border Agency and VAT on a lens I bought from Belgium. The fee label on the package from Customs/Border agency was £61.96 VAT, however Parcel Force were given the figure as £121.82 and then added their £12 charge, so I had to pay £133.82 on a 295 euro lens. I filled out the complaint form the next day.

Yesterday I had a letter saying there should have been no VAT and I would get a £61.92 refund but not the Parcel Force £12 handling charge. No mention of the overcharging, so another letter more documentation, etc. That was an EU/UK transaction.

The big issue is buying from say the US or Japan (and Canada) I would have to pay first Import Duty on the item & shipping cost, typically 10% for things like cameras & lenses, the VAT at 20% compounded on top, then the UK carrier's handling charge. It typically adds a third in charges, more when you take into account the now high International postage/shipping costs.

It is a bit of a minefield, Border Agency said there was a mistake on the original Customs form. Either the seller or more likely the Belgian Post. However I know from selling to Japan it is not easy finding the correct customs code for items. Ebay's GSP )Global Shipping Program) now does this for us.

It is important to share these experiences because we can all get caught out by these extra charges.

Ian
 

Hassasin

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Ian Grant said:
It is important to share these experiences because we can all get caught out by these extra charges
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EBay does it but it is not for free. What I see with GSP are charges higher than actual so there must be a hidden fee for doing so. Then there are typically still additional charges at receiving end depending how it goes through clearance. Still an overall peace of mind using GSP.
 

grain elevator

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braxus said:
I looked myself. They are charging $17 for broker fee and $148.30 for the taxes owing. Based on the taxes charged, the declared value would have been $1235.10 Canadian dollars, not the $143 I paid. Somewhere he screwed up.
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That seems pretty close, but not perfectly, to what might happen if someone mistook the value in JPY for the value in CAD.
 

loccdor

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Thanks for the heads up. The last thing I needed was more camera equipment, but this makes it easier to resist. I'll be following with interest people's international shipping experiences this year.

I sent a camera marked "Broken camera, for repair" from USA to Canada yesterday, with a value of $100. Hopefully they respect that and don't charge the hell out of the recipient... these were also the labeling instructions a German camera repairer had advised me previously.
 

Ian Grant

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As a seller when GSP is used the first I know is after the sale has been made, and I pay the postage and see the UK GSP address. There is nothing telling me what the buyer is being charged. Tracking shows there are delays, probably while there are sufficient items to buy bulk air freight to the destination country.



Here in the UK Duty if relevant and VAY which applies to all but EU purchases, is levied on items exceeding £135 value (about $174).

Ian
 

halfaman

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The problem is when you send it without any purpose declaration of the export. I sent a Noblex to PCW (Precision Camera Works) for repair without export declaration and when the camera came back Spanish Postal Service demanded it. Hopefully, my girlfriend's aunt worked in the Postal Service and helped me to write a statement to elude this requisite.
 

koraks

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loccdor said:
I sent a camera marked "Broken camera, for repair" from USA to Canada yesterday, with a value of $100. Hopefully they respect that and don't charge the hell out of the recipient...
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It depends on the destination country and the way they handle such matters. I know that when I receive stuff from abroad, the stated value is (at least so far) always respected.

The problems emerge when people send stuff and don't declare a value. I've received prints from fellow amateur photographers abroad as part of print exchanges for which I had to pay import fees and VAT. No kidding! I've paid as much as €25-30 to receive a print a fellow amateur photographer gifted me! I think in that particular case the assumed value was something like €78. Standard catalog value of an otherwise unmarked print. Based on what? Who knows!
 

Don_ih

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koraks said:
I've received prints from fellow amateur photographers abroad as part of print exchanges for which I had to pay import fees and VAT.
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I've started filling out customs slips for prints I send in the Blind Print Exchange, stating the value at $1 per print (which is the minimum, it seems).
 

BrianShaw

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Since low and even-numbered values, even though 1 is odd, might be a red flag, perhaps adding a few pennies to the value might be a good idea. Until pennies and their equivalents are canceled.
 

Don_ih

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BrianShaw said:
Until pennies and their equivalents are canceled.
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There have been no pennies in Canada for a long time, now. I still have a jar full of them, though.

And the minimum value is the minimum value. It's a placeholder for "worth nothing".
 

loccdor

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@koraks I thought that "flats" ordinarily did not need a customs form, or were those in boxes?

@Don_ih In the US, we round the pennies on our income taxes. Couldn't have always been that way, must have been dropped at some point in the past.
 

Don_ih

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loccdor said:
I thought that "flats" ordinarily did not need a customs form
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I had an envelope containing an 8x10 print (sent from here to Germany) returned with a request for a customs form because it had a piece of cardboard in it as protection. It wasn't sent back by Canada Post - it was sent back by USPS. For some reason, the mail to Germany from here went through the US and the US wanted the form.

I lost the original postage. So I always do a customs form, now.
 

GregY

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braxus said:
The seller found out there was an error in the documentation. It will take a week to correct.
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Good news. Trying to get corrections from Courrier services is very difficult... i have had results w Canada Post,
 

koraks

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loccdor said:
@koraks I thought that "flats" ordinarily did not need a customs form, or were those in boxes?
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They were flats alright, and no, they don't require a customs form...they'll just slap taxes on top if none is included and the item's value is not clearly stated!
YMMV of course; it'll depend on the the country and agency that handles the mail. In this case, part of the 'problem' is that there's been a fairly effective program to tax AliExpress imports that were happening at a massive scale. Much of the Ali stuff also arrives in flats.
 

Sirius Glass

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braxus said:
The seller found out there was an error in the documentation. It will take a week to correct.
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I hope the correction will move the needle in the right direction for you and in a big way.
 

ant!

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Great the problem was found!

I bought often enough from Europe, Japan and the US, to Canada. Usually it's GST+PST (QST in my case...) + processing fee, never actual duties. The processing fees ranged from $10-20 with Canada Post or Fedex to crazy amounts with DHL or UPS (fees as a percentage, taxes on fees, additional fees...).

In a few cases I was going by myself to the Customs Inland Office (CBSA - https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/do-rb/services/inland-interieur-eng.html) to self-declare. The Montreal office is in the old port and only 200m from my bike commute, and it never took more then 10min. Basically, tell the cargo company (DHL or whoever) by phone in the moment you get the news about custom fees that you wish to self-declare. It takes 1-2 days and you receive the documents (which had a problem in your case, but I guess you would have spotted it by yourself), with these go to the customs office, pay GST+PST, get the docs stamped, scan it and email back to the courier. And get it delivered. This saved me already up to $120 for a single shipment with UPS, avoiding crazy fees. I don't do this if it's to save $10, but in some cases it's worth the minor hassle. And the Montreal office is a really beautiful old building, an historic customs building near the old port...
Of course this works only if you are somewhere near an inland office of CBSA and don't need to drive a full day to one.
 

MattKing

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I'm familiar with where @braxus is based.
There isn't a Customs Inland Office anywhere practically nearby.
But otherwise that is a good suggestion.
 

GregY

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I've had 2 nightmares in the last 2 months with the (American) Ebay GSP......one lost Nikon lens that travelled all over N America before being lost.... in both cases 30+ days under way.
In one case...(.I'm 299 miles N of Sandpoint Idaho.)...the package via Ebay GSP was shipped to the midwest, then crossed the border 2000miles east of my location....
By contrast with the USA I've had super fast shipping times from Ebay purchases from Japan... 4 to 7 days to Western Canada.
 
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Hassasin

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My peace of mind was actually about the extra fees and taxes, no shock fees upon delivery. but yes, GSP can add significant complexity to shipping route for no apparent reason. I pretty sure eBay has only one fixed address in US where all GSP shipments must first go to, for processing and relabelling, irrespective of sender’s location.
 

GregY

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It used to be that the buyer had some input on shipping choices with Ebay. Since that's no longer the case, for some of us, it affects where' we'll buy from.... i.e. not Ebay in N America.
It does make forum sales and sales from individual camera outlets much more appealing.
 

foc

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If I am posting an item (sale of goods) to a non EU country, I must declare the type of goods, a TARIC code (HS or Taffif code) and the value (my selling price). These details are included on the printed form and included in the label barcode so it can be read electronically (electronic customs data) a customs declaration form CN23.
The export from EU to non Eu is Vat zero rate.

I know DPD courier (and I am sure the other couriers in Ireland), require the same details before accepting an item for delivery outside the EU.
The destination country can read the barcode/docket and apply any charges necessary, including handling fee.

Undervaluing the goods can lead to delay or seizure.

My local Revenue (tax office) website has the details of Duty payable on goods imported from Non EU, so I am sure other countries have the same.
 

ant!

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Yes, it's basically the same. The issue here seems to be that the seller made a mistake in the declaration, e.g. Japanese Yen / dollar confusion or incorrect hs code or place of origin.
And of course additional processing fees from couriers to handle the custom processing, which often is the easiest, but most expensive option. At work we use a professional custom broker office for this, instead the DHL brokers...
 
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