Is photography reality? No.

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TheFlyingCamera

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I'll post a link to an article I wrote on my blog to spur conversation. I'm not transcribing it in full because the formatting including the inline images would be a tedious pain to recreate.

Photography occupies a unique niche in the arts. Because of its easy verisimilitude, its capacity to effortlessly record detail with precision, it presents the comfortable illusion that it is reality. I would argue that it is in fact no more reality than painting, and in some ways even less, precisely because of its easy verisimilitude.
That's the opening sentence. I welcome discussion and debate, but please do read the whole article before commenting.

Is photography reality? No.
 

BrianShaw

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That word is too profound for me without looking it up, but I think I agree.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I would say photography can be closer to reality than a painting. Look at a photo from the 19th Century of people standing on a street, looking at the camera lens. Look at a painting of a similar scene. The photograph will be more impactful, as it is of people who once graced this planet. At least this is how I feel, anyways...
 

Cholentpot

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It's what I see and I try to represent that in a photo. Reality is a thorny concept to begin with.
 

Hassasin

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Hard to argue with statement implying possibility photography might not only be unreal, but also less so than a painting. A whole new discussion would have to take place just to get over that point.

Straight photography surely is reality, but it is also stripped of dynamics changing most scenes even in seconds. So in the latter sense it, or any piece of record, is never fully 100% real. So now would have to go into what real or reality is supposed to mean.

verisimilitude - was it it really necessary to go that far? or was the intent to convince some potential participants to leave before they see invitation? it surely makes the topic look far more ... philosophical (and thus not for everyone)
 
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TheFlyingCamera

TheFlyingCamera

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Hard to argue with statement implying possibility photography might not only be unreal, but also less so than a painting. A whole new discussion would have to take place just to get over that point.

Straight photography surely is reality, but it is also stripped of dynamics changing most scenes even in seconds. So in the latter sense it, or any piece of record, is never fully 100% real. So now would have to go into what real or reality is supposed to mean.

verisimilitude - was it it really necessary to go that far? or was the intent to convince some potential participants to leave before they see invitation? it surely makes the topic look far more ... philosophical (and thus not for everyone)

Well, verisimilitude is very much the appropriate word to use in this circumstance. It refers to the similarity to the represented subject. And yes, this is a philosophical discussion, so if having a philosophical discussion is a turn-off, the option is always there to not read and not respond.

I'd be interested to hear your opinions on those questions of what is and isn't "real" and how photography relates to that. There certainly is a common conception of photographs being hyper-realistic and an accompanying comfort in accepting a photo as somehow "real". Maybe real isn't the best word for it, and I'm open to other suggestions of what that word should be.
 

Alex Benjamin

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Maybe real isn't the best word for it, and I'm open to other suggestions of what that word should be.

Don't open that can of worms. Define what "real"/"reality" means to you, in the context that you are using it, and we have something to discuss.

If not, then this thread will soon become one about the meaning, for each participant, of the words "reality" and "truth". In other words, tell us where you want us to go and we'll all meet there to chat.
 

Maris

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I may have been harmed or helped by having done philosophy at a university level but I am sure that this essay on the reality of a photograph would not fly in basic Philosophy 101.
The problem lies not in enumerating the properties of a photograph, these are arguably well known, but in correlating those properties with the corresponding properties of reality.
What constitutes reality is ontological question in metaphysics and the several answers to that question do not necessarily form a closed set.

Rather than the original essay a more rigorous approach would be to list the properties of reality and then list the properties of a photograph. Comparing and contrasting both lists
could generate useful insights into what true and false statements could be made about a photograph. But it wouldn't be easy going.
 

Alex Benjamin

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The problem lies not in enumerating the properties of a photograph, these are arguably well known, but in correlating those properties with the corresponding properties of reality.
What constitutes reality is ontological question in metaphysics and the several answers to that question do not necessarily form a closed set.

And, philosophically speaking, the relationship between reality, truth and the work of art has been explored in depth by Heidegger and, following him, Gadamer. It's an ontological question best left to hermeneutics.
 

xkaes

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A photograph is real. It's as real as the subject, but it's not the same, of course. It's a 2 dimensional representation -- as is a painting -- but usually more accurate. It's obvious that a photo is not the same thing as the subject.

I must admit that their are even dumber comparisons that will be made this year.
 

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A good read. The classic example (for me) is someone looking at a photograph and saying to a friend, "Oh look at the old car!" No, it is a photograph of an old car...but wanting to equate them seems to be tied into the English language.

Years ago I had the minor realization that we do not see physical objects -- instead, our eyes receive light reflecting off of multiple surfaces, and our brains interprets patterns within the visual input as three dimensional objects within a space. Just an interesting thought, and one that clicks well with my approach to landscape work. It helps me to step back a bit from the objects (redwoods, landforms, creeks, whatevers) in front of the camera and pay attention to the qualities of the reflected light that make up the scene...then weave them back together as an image.

More or less...
 

gone

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The subject is certainly a mine field but worthy of discussion. I'm sure everyone will have a different take on exactly what "reality" is, and that's how it should be because we're all different. But in it's simplest form, assuming we're talking about straight photography, a photograph is an accurate two dimensional representation of the three dimensional forms in front of the camera at that particular moment in time. But that doesn't mean it's a representation of reality, it's just kinda, sorta like that reality at that moment, given the tools at hand.

Left unsaid is what the photographer's input and intent is. Just changing the lighting or waiting for it to change outdoors will affect the tone and mood of the photograph. If it's a portrait, hoo boy! A lot of things can be done w/ that, and none of them will be "reality".

Even the format, lens and film selection will be the artistic contribution of the photographer, who may be after a certain look or feel. A lot will depend on their craftsmanship and intent in the printing process because there the photo can be drastically changed from what's recorded on the film or digital sensor. Just changing the size of the photo will make for a different viewing experience. Maybe the most that could be said is that when seeing a photograph, one can say yep, that's a real photograph.
 

Don_ih

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I am sure that this essay on the reality of a photograph would not fly in basic Philosophy 101.

It would. There's no reason to say it wouldn't.

Anyway, the view of photography most people have is powered by their understanding of how it works, how it attains its results. You point the camera at a scene and - click - you get a resultant image that looks like that scene. So people are going to find it very representational. The fact that the essay notes the "easy verisimilitude" underlines that particular integral aspect of the understanding of photography that it produces representative images. Do people mistake those for reality? No. But they often assume that what appears to be taking place in the image actually happened.

I do believe hermeneutics is the wrong approach. Also, this isn't an ontological question at all. It's primarily epistemological. Going beyond what you can understand won't give you much insight.
 

Alex Benjamin

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I'm pretty sure Magritte settled this matter a while ago.

Capture d’écran, le 2024-04-11 à 07.31.04.png
 

Milpool

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I think this is the kind of thing that amounts largely to a desire to make something a lot more complex or deep an issue than it really is.
 

Alex Benjamin

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It would. There's no reason to say it wouldn't.

Anyway, the view of photography most people have is powered by their understanding of how it works, how it attains its results. You point the camera at a scene and - click - you get a resultant image that looks like that scene. So people are going to find it very representational. The fact that the essay notes the "easy verisimilitude" underlines that particular integral aspect of the understanding of photography that it produces representative images. Do people mistake those for reality? No. But they often assume that what appears to be taking place in the image actually happened.

I do believe hermeneutics is the wrong approach. Also, this isn't an ontological question at all. It's primarily epistemological. Going beyond what you can understand won't give you much insight.

No disrespect to the OP, but I think the question of the correspondance between photography and reality has become irrelevant today. It has been dealt with in depth, directly or indirectly, by thinkers such as John Berger, John Szarkowski, Susan Sontag, Stephen Shore, Teju Cole and countless others, many of whom were, or are, photographers.

More importantly — and much more interestingly — in has been dealt with photographically by photographers such as Stephen Shore, Lee Friedlander and William Eggleston. No accident that Shore titled one of his collections American Surfaces, and when Friedlander puts a cloud on top of a road sign, he's both asking and answering the question.

I agree that hermeneutics isn't the only way to approach this: in many ways, it's as out of date, if not more, than the examples I've just mentioned.

Philosophically—as well as esthetically, socially and politically—, the question of what is reality has become irrelevant to us. It has strongly, and urgently, been replaced by the question of what is truth.
 

Alex Benjamin

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Come to think of it, this issue has also been dealt with and resolved pretty efficiently by Queen:

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality
Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see


😏

P.S., sorry if you spend the rest of the day with the song stuck in your head... 😣
 

Don_ih

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I think the question of the correspondance between photography and reality has become irrelevant today. It has been dealt with in depth, directly or indirectly, by thinkers such as John Berger, John Szarkowski, Susan Sontag, Stephen Shore, Teju Cole and countless others, many of whom were, or are, photographers.

Well, no. None of those people have had the prospect of machine-generated, extremely "realistic" looking "photographs" to deal with. That issue, more than any other, calls for an examination of how reliably a photo can be thought of as corresponding to some actuality.

Furthermore, the fact that other people examined an issue never precludes the possibility of them being incorrect or, at the very least, outmoded.

As for the question "what is truth": the number of potential (and often contradictory) assumptions that are embedded in any answer commonly given overwhelms the value of pursuing it. That is not something that ever needs to be introduced into any discussion of practical matters, since each field of practice involved invariably has its own criteria for what constitutes "truth".
 

MattKing

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Come to think of it, this issue has also been dealt with and resolved pretty efficiently by Queen:

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality
Open your eyes, look up to the skies and see


😏

P.S., sorry if you spend the rest of the day with the song stuck in your head... 😣

I just hope no one on Photrio tries to post an internet form of the Fandango.
 

runswithsizzers

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Which is the "real" Hannibal Missouri -- the one described in Wikipedia / Britannica, or the one described by Mark Twain in Huckleberry Finn?

Presumabably, the encyclopedia articles consist of verifiable facts. As opposed to the characters and events depicted in Huckleberry Finn, which were entirely invented or highly embellished by Mark Twain. Yet despite being "not true," I think Twain was better able to depict, preserve, and convey the experience of his hometown Hannibal than the encyclopedia writers who were limited to "just-the-facts." Mark Twain had the huge advantage of actual intimate experience with the place, great powers of observation, and a deep understanding of both human nature and the craft of writing. Is Twain's version of reality any less valid than the facts in the encyclopedias? It is certainly much more entertaining.

As photographers, maybe we should rely on our experience, observation, and craft when making photographs, and leave concepts like reality to the realm of the philosophers?
 
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Vaughn

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...

As photographers, maybe we should rely on our experience, observation, and craft when making photographs, and leave concepts like reality to the realm of the philosophers?

Ah, one of the jobs of photographers is to mess with reality. Ya got to think about the material you're working with.
 
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