Kodak-branded chemicals - official news (they are returning)

[Milpool]

Hello,

As some of you might know John Sexton is often the best "inside line" we have regarding all things Kodak. Just thought I'd link here to his latest newsletter which addresses the Sino Promise/Kodak-branded chemistry situation.

Short version:

1. Sino Promise did officially exit the business in early 2023

2. Photo Systems Inc. (U.S.), which had been manufacturing the chemicals for Sino Promise - and for Kodak Alaris before the 2020 sale of that business to Sino Promise, has now secured the worldwide license from Eastman Kodak enabling them to both manufacture and market/distribute the full line of Kodak-branded chemicals

3. Photo Systems Inc. plans to re-introduce the full range of B&W chemicals by late 2023, followed by the color chemistry

To read more, scroll down to the section about this in John's latest newsletter here: https://www.johnsexton.com/

Below is an extract - quoted directly from Alan Fischer, CEO/founder of Photo Systems Inc. https://www.photosys.com/ :

On September 1, 2023 Photo Systems Inc. became the worldwide licensee for Kodak Professional chemistry. Prior to this time, Photo Systems Inc. manufactured photographic chemistry for Kodak Alaris, the film licensee that continues to operate today. Subsequently, when Kodak Alaris sold its chemical business to Sino Promise, we continued manufacturing chemistry for them.

In early 2023, Sino Promise decided to exit the chemistry business. This prompted us to begin the process of securing a licensing agreement directly from Eastman Kodak, enabling us to operate as both the licensee and manufacturer of Kodak Professional chemistry. We are pleased to announce that we recently successfully secured that agreement.

Currently, we are in the process of rebranding the products under the Kodak brand with Photo Systems Inc. as the licensee and manufacturer. Our plan is to reintroduce the entire range of black and white products by December 15, 2023, followed by the release of C-41, E-6, and RA-4 color products.

We are in the process of establishing a network of distributors worldwide and expect to begin exporting these products in the first quarter of 2024. The Kodak Professional chemicals brand has a long and rich history, and a reputation for excellent quality. It has garnered a dedicated and passionate following among analog photographic enthusiasts, and we are anticipating that the brand will be widely available in 2024.

 

[Kino]

Milpool; Thank you for that report. I hope this does materialize.

 

[brbo]

Great news!

I liked "Kodak" RA-4 better than Fuji that I'm using now.

 

[Milpool]

Aside from it being good news (I hope), it also “lifts the veil” somewhat regarding who has actually been making the Kodak-branded chemicals and where. There was Champion, Tetenal… but it was never clear (not that it necessarily matters), what outfit made them after that. Unfortunately this also means the various officially documented manufacturing issues (brown Dektol, HC-110 precipitate etc.) might have had to do with Photo Systems Inc. I sincerely hope they have their sh*t together on this since there is ground to make up, particularly as new players have stepped in (Fotoimpex) to make high quality substitutes.

I would also like to see Photo Systems Inc. consider re-introducing 1l packets of powdered chemicals. To me this is an advantage Ilford and others have. As much as I would love to return to using pre-packaged Kodak Dektol, gallon-mixes are simply too unwieldy for me, and I can’t be the only one who feels that way.

 

[KyleMika]

If true, this is fantastic. I have been trying to make my D-76 and all C-41 Flexicolor chems to last. Also E6 would be great! No mention of Kodak Endura though?

 

[chuckroast]

Aside from it being good news (I hope), it also “lifts the veil” somewhat regarding who has actually been making the Kodak-branded chemicals and where. There was Champion, Tetenal… but it was never clear (not that it necessarily matters), what outfit made them after that. Unfortunately this also means the various officially documented manufacturing issues (brown Dektol, HC-110 precipitate etc.) might have had to do with Photo Systems Inc. I sincerely hope they have their sh*t together on this since there is ground to make up, particularly as new players have stepped in (Fotoimpex) to make high quality substitutes.

I would also like to see Photo Systems Inc. consider re-introducing 1l packets of powdered chemicals. To me this is an advantage Ilford and others have. As much as I would love to return to using pre-packaged Kodak Dektol, gallon-mixes are simply too unwieldy for me, and I can’t be the only one who feels that way.

It's likely not economical to package smaller one-shot size chemistry packets.

If you need that, just buy some smaller brown glass bottles, mix a gallon an store therein. I do this with PermaWash which is cheaper by the gallon but used in rather small amounts. I found out the hard way that leaving it in the original container will cause it to go bad over time. Just make sure to get the bottles that are: A) Glass and B) Have "polycone" style caps for positive sealing.

 

[koraks]

No mention of Kodak Endura though?

I was wondering about the same, but since that used to be manufactured by a different entity (Carestream), it would not automatically be included in this deal.

 

[Ian Grant]

PSI have been making D76 for a while now sold as Freestyle D76. There is one issue the D76 Trademark/name lapsed in the US, and has been registered in Germany by Adox..

Ian

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Well, that's good news indeed. By the time my stock of XTol runs out, hopefully fresh stuff will be on the shelves again... hopefully won't cost an arm and a leg!

 

[runswithsizzers]

Aside from it being good news (I hope), it also “lifts the veil” somewhat regarding who has actually been making the Kodak-branded chemicals and where. There was Champion, Tetenal… but it was never clear (not that it necessarily matters), what outfit made them after that. Unfortunately this also means the various officially documented manufacturing issues (brown Dektol, HC-110 precipitate etc.) might have had to do with Photo Systems Inc. I sincerely hope they have their sh*t together on this since there is ground to make up, particularly as new players have stepped in (Fotoimpex) to make high quality substitutes.

I would also like to see Photo Systems Inc. consider re-introducing 1l packets of powdered chemicals. To me this is an advantage Ilford and others have. As much as I would love to return to using pre-packaged Kodak Dektol, gallon-mixes are simply too unwieldy for me, and I can’t be the only one who feels that way.

And was it Photo Systems who made the bad batches of Xtol for Kodak Alaris as discussed in this (long) thread?
Kodak XTOL trade concern announcment

 

[halfaman]

Excellent news! They have some hard work ahead to regain the trust of minlabs in Kodak branded checmistry but it worths the effort.

 

[Milpool]

It's likely not economical to package smaller one-shot size chemistry packets.

If you need that, just buy some smaller brown glass bottles, mix a gallon an store therein. I do this with PermaWash which is cheaper by the gallon but used in rather small amounts. I found out the hard way that leaving it in the original container will cause it to go bad over time. Just make sure to get the bottles that are: A) Glass and B) Have "polycone" style caps for positive sealing.

I'm not sure what the economic problem is. Like everything else the customer would simply pay more (on a per volume of chemical basis compared with the larger packages) for the smaller packages. Works for Ilford etc. etc.

For lower volume users and/or those with limited space mixing a bucket of chemical and storing in a slew of bottles is a pain in the ass.

The discontinuation of 1l packets of certain Kodak-branded powders (namely D-76 and Dektol) was a fairly recent thing. In fact that was what caused me to stop using Dektol before the most recent manufacturing problems/service bulletins and distribution issues.

Anyhow I hope this whole thing works out for everyone concerned. They'll have some work to do regarding labs and retailers. For example, the one major brick-mortar darkroom retailer left in my city stopped carrying Kodak-branded chemicals altogether circa 2020-2021, which means I can't buy something as simple as Kodak Indicator Stop Bath anymore, manufactured or not. Can't realistically order it online from the major retailers due to shipping restrictions.

 

[analogwisdom]

And was it Photo Systems who made the bad batches of Xtol for Kodak Alaris as discussed in this (long) thread?
Kodak XTOL trade concern announcment

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't the case? The images of the bad Xtol in that thread say made in Germany, and images for the "Brown" Dektol also say Made in Germany.

 

[analogwisdom]

KODAK PROFESSIONAL

KODAK PROFESSIONAL Photographic Chemistry and Imaging Solutions

kodak.photosys.com

Here's a website, but it seems incomplete right now.

Just from a quick dig, it looks like Photo Systems, Inc. is who makes the Unicolor E6 and C41 kits. Perhaps these will just be rebranded to Kodak now?

 

[mshchem]

These are the folks that made Unicolor chemistry starting in the 70's. This is a good thing!!!

 

[MattKing]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't the case? The images of the bad Xtol in that thread say made in Germany, and images for the "Brown" Dektol also say Made in Germany.

During times of various transitions, the country of manufacture varied with geographic market. The stuff with problems may have shared defective packaging, which may have been single sourced.
A lot of the change was motivated by the problems with Tetenal.
Kodak Alaris was trying to centralize production to the USA, not least because that is where the largest retail market is for Kodak branded black and white chemicals is. The switch went smoothly for some things, but not for others.
Unfortunately, the version of HC-110 that Photo Systems Inc. makes isn't likely to offer the extremely long storage life that the former Tetenal (and Sino Promise?) made in Germany (and China?).

 

[runswithsizzers]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't the case? The images of the bad Xtol in that thread say made in Germany, and images for the "Brown" Dektol also say Made in Germany.

Ahh! I had a bag from one of the recalled lots, but I could not remember where it was made.

 

[chuckroast]

I'm not sure what the economic problem is. Like everything else the customer would simply pay more (on a per volume of chemical basis compared with the larger packages) for the smaller packages. Works for Ilford etc. etc.

For lower volume users and/or those with limited space mixing a bucket of chemical and storing in a slew of bottles is a pain in the ass.

The discontinuation of 1l packets of certain Kodak-branded powders (namely D-76 and Dektol) was a fairly recent thing. In fact that was what caused me to stop using Dektol before the most recent manufacturing problems/service bulletins and distribution issues.

Anyhow I hope this whole thing works out for everyone concerned. They'll have some work to do regarding labs and retailers. For example, the one major brick-mortar darkroom retailer left in my city stopped carrying Kodak-branded chemicals altogether circa 2020-2021, which means I can't buy something as simple as Kodak Indicator Stop Bath anymore, manufactured or not. Can't realistically order it online from the major retailers due to shipping restrictions.

You might want to consider making your own from scratch. It's cheap enough to make one liter quantities

 

[Helge]

Fantastic news! So happy.

 

[cmacd123]

Unfortunately, the version of HC-110 that Photo Systems Inc. makes isn't likely to offer the extremely long storage life that the former Tetenal (and Sino Promise?) made in Germany (and China?).

from reading MSDS - (yes, one of my jobs in my past life was in Health and safety) it seems that Photo Systems was/is the source of the Legacy Pro L110. (which is what I have been using as B&H will ship that to Canada, But not Kodak Brand HC-110.)

Perhaps with the new license direct from Eastman Kodak, (NOT Kodak Alaris) they can produce the Syrup version.

 

[MattKing]

My understanding is that the complexity of the technology and the nature of the equipment necessary was the reason that the legacy syrup version wasn't being made by the USA supplier - it wasn't an issue of the license.

 

[Steven Lee]

Haha, so it turns out that LegacyPro Ascorbic Acid developer is indeed Xtol in a different bag. Also, I now feel silly looking at my giant stash of US-made Xtol.

 

[MattKing]

Haha, so it turns out that LegacyPro Ascorbic Acid developer is indeed Xtol in a different bag. Also, I now feel silly looking at my giant stash of US-made Xtol.

I wonder if the LegacyPro Kodak "replacements" will stay around.

 

[GLS]

Good news, especially the prospect of having another (hopefully reliable and long term) supplier of E6 chemistry.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hello,

As some of you might know John Sexton is often the best "inside line" we have regarding all things Kodak. Just thought I'd link here to his latest newsletter which addresses the Sino Promise/Kodak-branded chemistry situation.

Short version:

1. Sino Promise did officially exit the business in early 2023

2. Photo Systems Inc. (U.S.), which had been manufacturing the chemicals for Sino Promise - and for Kodak Alaris before the 2020 sale of that business to Sino Promise, has now secured the worldwide license from Eastman Kodak enabling them to both manufacture and market/distribute the full line of Kodak-branded chemicals

3. Photo Systems Inc. plans to re-introduce the full range of B&W chemicals by late 2023, followed by the color chemistry

To read more, scroll down to the section about this in John's latest newsletter here: https://www.johnsexton.com/

Below is an extract - quoted directly from Alan Fischer, CEO/founder of Photo Systems Inc. https://www.photosys.com/ :

On September 1, 2023 Photo Systems Inc. became the worldwide licensee for Kodak Professional chemistry. Prior to this time, Photo Systems Inc. manufactured photographic chemistry for Kodak Alaris, the film licensee that continues to operate today. Subsequently, when Kodak Alaris sold its chemical business to Sino Promise, we continued manufacturing chemistry for them.

In early 2023, Sino Promise decided to exit the chemistry business. This prompted us to begin the process of securing a licensing agreement directly from Eastman Kodak, enabling us to operate as both the licensee and manufacturer of Kodak Professional chemistry. We are pleased to announce that we recently successfully secured that agreement.

Currently, we are in the process of rebranding the products under the Kodak brand with Photo Systems Inc. as the licensee and manufacturer. Our plan is to reintroduce the entire range of black and white products by December 15, 2023, followed by the release of C-41, E-6, and RA-4 color products.

We are in the process of establishing a network of distributors worldwide and expect to begin exporting these products in the first quarter of 2024. The Kodak Professional chemicals brand has a long and rich history, and a reputation for excellent quality. It has garnered a dedicated and passionate following among analog photographic enthusiasts, and we are anticipating that the brand will be widely available in 2024.

Great news indeed. Thank you.