Lab-Box Kickstarter

tezzasmall · Jun 29, 2019

abruzzi said:
All that said I have found the perfect system that I can always load in the dark--the Kodacraft aprons. But they aren't sold any more.

CORRECTION: Yes, film aprons, although probably not the named 'Kodacraft apron' are still available new!

This question pops up on sites every now and again and from my last viewing of this question, at least a couple of places were showed to stock them. A quick-ish internet search should find them.

The one and only time that I encountered them, was when I went to an American boys summer camp, where I taught them how to process and print a b/w film. The aprons themselves were infallible, with the hardest part of the film processing for the lads (aged between about 10 and 15 years old) was the snapping open, in the dark, of 126 film cartridges.

Terry S

PS I've just checked ebay.com, and there a few available secondhand, but with a tank, at low prices. I still can't remember where they are sold new, but they are out there.

abruzzi · Jun 29, 2019

In the US freestyle had them up to a few years ago but then discontinued them. Washi has something similar for processing their paper based film, where you thread a heavy yarn through the sprocket holes of a blank piece of film.

abruzzi · Jun 29, 2019

AgX said:
I started without any textbook, let alone video or internet. Let alone a darkroom.
All I got was a new two-reels Jobo tank, a bottle of developer concentrate, a sachet with fixing salt, and a floating thermometer. All went fine.
From my 4th roll on I bulk-loaded. All I had and new of were reloadable plastic cassettes. Again, all went fine.

Congratulations, but I would submit that your experience isn’t universal. When I took my first film class ~30 yeas ago, loading spools was the largest anxiety inducing detail among all the students.

mshchem · Jun 29, 2019

Kodacraft tank. Now that's a foolproof method! The apron leaves little contact marks on the margins. Still available on Ebay. Did Kodak make these for 35mm?

Whatever gets the job done is great. My Mom could knit a sweater and read a book at the same time. I can barely tie a knot.

MattKing · Jun 29, 2019

mshchem said:
Did Kodak make these for 35mm?

Yes - for 127 and 616/116 as well.
I have a couple of tanks and both Kodak and Freestyle 120 aprons. I swear I had some 135 aprons as well, but they went missing.
I've been looking for 116/616 aprons for several years, without success.
The tank and apron pictured here is what we are talking about: https://www.photrio.com/forum/media/portal-of-a-different-sort.14286/

GarageBoy · Jun 29, 2019

Light tents under $100 would be nice
I worry my calumet one will develop holes and im stuck with buying a harrison pup ($300)

This is tempting...

abruzzi · Jun 29, 2019

mshchem said:
Kodacraft tank. Now that's a foolproof method! The apron leaves little contact marks on the margins. Still available on Ebay. Did Kodak make these for 35mm?

Whatever gets the job done is great. My Mom could knit a sweater and read a book at the same time. I can barely tie a knot.

I have two 120 aprons and 4 35mm aprons. The 35mm (“miniature film”) aprons are the most common on eBay, 120 can be found with a little persistence. I found that the metal separator that is supposed to go between the two rolls of 35 will fit in a standard el cheapo metal tank. So rather than using a Kodacraft tank (which can’t be inverted) I use them in a standard stainless tank.

MattKing · Jun 29, 2019

abruzzi said:
I found that the metal separator that is supposed to go between the two rolls of 35 will fit in a standard el cheapo metal tank. So rather than using a Kodacraft tank (which can’t be inverted) I use them in a standard stainless tank.

I've tried that, but had problems with uneven development.
The Kodacraft tank has a protrusion on the bottom that tends to keep the apron and film off the bottom, which in turn allows developer to flow more completely around the film.

mshchem · Jun 29, 2019

I've got one of these, I tried it once, worked great.

This is what I'm still looking for.

I took these images from the funnest place on the Web
https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/index.html

mshchem · Jun 29, 2019

12 pence in a shilling 20 shillings in £ . 5 and 6 would be about 30p in decimal money. Penny went farther in the good old days.

wahiba · Jul 17, 2019

Today I used the tank for the first time. 35mm loaded OK, but would nut cut off. Into the changing bag. Turned out I had not fed the film under two rollers. Also in the bag I had problems, or felt I did getting the lid back on so ended up transferring the film to my Patterson Tank. Practically all down to my lack of experience.

Having failed with 35mm I tried a 120. This seemed to go OK until I removed the lid and found not all the film had gone into the intermediate container. As a test run it was an old film but it means next time the lid will come off in a changing bag. Possibly just new bits sticking.

I also used the Ars Imago mono bath developer for the trial. 35mm transferred to Patterson tank was OK as was the surviving half of the 120 in the new tank.

The instructions are very comprehensive but practically are not very clear and leave more questions. The problem with the need to feed the film under the rollers is indicated with a diagram, but no note as to what the diagram was about.

Films wound onto spirals OK and turning and chemicals in and out is fine.

AgX · Jul 17, 2019

For a product aimed at people without experience or wanting to avoid hassle this is a failure.

Helios 1984 · Jul 17, 2019

I'm looking at the diagram... did they put rollers to hold the film for when it's being cut by the cutting knife?

ron917 · Jul 28, 2019

I used my Lab-Box for the first time yesterday with a roll of 120. It worked perfectly, no problems at all. It was significantly easier than loading 120 onto a reel in a dark bag.

Will try 35mm next. I expect it will go well.

For single rolls in daylight the Lab-Box is a good solution. I rarely have more than 1 or 2 rolls to process at any given time and I don't have a space that I can easily use as a darkroom. It will work well for me.

AgX · Jul 29, 2019

ron917 said:
It was significantly easier than loading 120 onto a reel in a dark bag.

This is a substantial benefit. Other than daylight-loading as such.

What type of reel did you use as comparison?

RalphLambrecht · Jul 29, 2019

farmersteve said:
Not many details, but it's a multi format daylight film development tank system. Not sure how it's gonna work...

http://www.ars-imago.com/lab-box/

the price is killing it for me.

ron917 · Jul 29, 2019

AgX said:
This is a substantial benefit. Other than daylight-loading as such.

What type of reel did you use as comparison?

I'm currently using Arista Premium plastic reels with the larger tabs that make loading easier. Even with these, loading 120 in a dark bag gives me major problems due to lack of space and sweaty hands. I've also tried standard Paterson and stainless reels, those are a no-go in the dark bag for me. 35mm is easy with the Arista Premium reels in a dark bag.

I used Paterson and stainless reels in a proper dark room many years ago. It took some practice but I could load 120 on them. I just don't have a space that I can easily use as a dark room right now (might change with upcoming home renovation/remodeling plans).

A large changing tent or box may work better. There would be more space, but sweaty hands would still be a problem.

MattKing · Jul 29, 2019

ron917 said:
I'm currently using Arista Premium plastic reels with the larger tabs that make loading easier. Even with these, loading 120 in a dark bag gives me major problems due to lack of space and sweaty hands. I've also tried standard Paterson and stainless reels, those are a no-go in the dark bag for me. 35mm is easy with the Arista Premium reels in a dark bag.

I used Paterson and stainless reels in a proper dark room many years ago. It took some practice but I could load 120 on them. I just don't have a space that I can easily use as a dark room right now (might change with upcoming home renovation/remodeling plans).

A large changing tent or box may work better. There would be more space, but sweaty hands would still be a problem.

Try putting a frame of some sort inside the bag, to keep the bag open and off your hands.
A cardboard box with the lid removed can work.
Even better though, use a darkened closet or room - consider loading tanks at night, and then keeping them until it is convenient to develop the film (be sure to label the tanks with the film and development needed!)

ron917 · Jul 29, 2019

RalphLambrecht said:
the price is killing it for me.

Yeah, the retail price is pretty high. The Kickstarter backer discount was significant, but still not inexpensive.

Maybe the retail price will drop, I've seen that with a few other products I've backed on Kickstarter. After a few months the street price dropped closer to the backer price.

pentaxuser · Jul 29, 2019

RalphLambrecht said:
the price is killing it for me.

The stockist in the U.K. is Firstcall Photographic and the price is £179. It looks expensive but if you are a hybrider and will never need a darkroom and you are into film for the longhaul and still in your 20-30s then over a 40 year period or even longer the price may begin to look more attractive Can anyone who subscribed to the kickstarter say what this saved them compared to the retail price?

Thanks
pentaxuser

ron917 · Jul 29, 2019

pentaxuser said:
Can anyone who subscribed to the kickstarter say what this saved them compared to the retail price?

The prices for various options are permanently posted on Kickstarter : https://www.kickstarter.com/project...-multi-format-daylight-loading-fi/description

As with many Kickstarter campaigns, the earliest backers got the best deals.

rbrigham · Jul 31, 2019

just got mine

I've yet to use it as I noticed that it was missing the rubber washers for the film guide

Other things I noticed was it has two reels 35 & 120 but only one core or hub as they call it so it will be being disassembled a lot for the sake of a small plastic tube which must cost approximately nothing ...
I also see that you can not use PET base films with it which is a shame as I like quite a few films on that base and it seems to be the modern option with new films
I wonder how many kids are going to come unstuck trying to develop films that it won't work with

a bit unimpressed so far

robin

Helios 1984 · Jul 31, 2019

rbrigham said:
I also see that you can not use PET base films with it which is a shame as I like quite a few films on that base and it seems to be the modern option with new films

robin

It's because the vertical cutting blade cannot cut through PET, it's the same with the Rondinax 35. However, it's not a problem if you are using bulk film, you just have to attach an extra 1 or 2 inches of non-PET film to the spool.

pentaxuser · Jul 31, 2019

Thanks for the reply, ron917. The savings were in fact quite substantial compared to what the only retailer stockist in the U.K is charging. The fact that there is currently only one retailer stockist may or may not be significant in terms of price but it is never going to be a high volume item so a few retailers selling it may not make a lot of difference to price

pentaxuser

AgX · Jul 31, 2019

Helios 1984 said:
It's because the vertical cutting blade cannot cut through PET, it's the same with the Rondinax 35. However, it's not a problem if you are using bulk film, you just have to attach an extra 1 or 2 inches of non-PET film to the spool.

But fiddling in the dark is just what was to be ommitted by this thing. And the benefit of the film more easily being brought onto the reels as stated above is hampered by yet another issue.

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