Leica M or Leica IIIF?

anta40 · Dec 24, 2024

As an ex-owner of M3 (and also tried the M2, M4, M6...), and now an owner of IIIF, I still recommend a M:
bigger VF, more modern lenses (including 3rd parties like Zeiss, Voigt, etc).
You have less options for the IIIF, like Voigt or Konica LTM lenses.

Some of my friends (SLR users) say it's kinda hard to focus with the IIIF. Personally, I don't think it's that hard. A bit uncomfortable, though.
BTW, I'm near-sighted.

Sirius Glass · Dec 24, 2024

Arthurwg said:
I use both. I appreciate the built-in light meter on the M6, but the IIIF is charming to use and the 50mm Elmar F3.5 is a spectacular lens. Still, for travel and street pictures I prefer my Nikon F6 (or the F100 before that), for AF and P modes.

As noted I am learning to appreciate the Leica II & III and the Leica M camera better, however I like the ease of the Nikon AF slrs [N75 and F100] and the optics and TH-WACK of the Hasselblads.

Paul Howell · Dec 24, 2024

So, why a IIIF and not a IIIG?

cliveh · Dec 24, 2024

Paul Howell said:
So, why a IIIF and not a IIIG?

I once bought a IIIG, as I had heard they were the bees knees. I put one film through it and didn't like the way it handled compared to older Barnacks. I just thought they were trying to pack too much into it. Not for me, so sold it on. But Barnacks are so damn tactile. This is the only decent photo I took with it.

Don_ih · Dec 24, 2024

Paul Howell said:
So, why a IIIF and not a IIIG?

I don't see any significant difference between them, except the viewfinder is improved in the G. The main difference between them is about $500. That explains why people are more likely to have and recommend the IIIF. There are also a lot more IIIF black and red dials than IIIG bodies.

Paul Howell · Dec 24, 2024

I guess that makes sense, I had a IIIG, it was a really good camera, but as I posted earlier when in the field loading it was too much of a pain so I used my Canon 7s most of the time.

Don_ih · Dec 24, 2024

I can't see why anyone would find loading a bottom-loading Leica difficult. You pull out the spool, shove the film in it, slip both spools in, close the bottom, advance the film, trip the shutter, the next advance is ready to expose.

Paul Howell · Dec 24, 2024

First you need to trim the film to fit, Leica sold templates. Doing so while shooting, the open the back loading was much easier. I think that the M2 M3 was a bit easier than the IIIG. The Nikon F was not much better.

aw614 · Dec 24, 2024

I got my Leica IIIC back from a CLA last month with a new beamsplitter and I will say, it is clear and easy to focus with it. Shot one roll of film through it and it was a breeze. I've been on a Barnack binge lately including shooting with a Nicca Type IIIS and a Leotax F.

I bought the Ausegeknipst quickload spool for my Leica IIIC and Barnack copies and from testing loading it multiple times, you can load it without having to cut the film leader. Yeah I know some can do it without cutting....but for travel and not worrying about carrying a pair of scissors on a plane, I'll be using that spool.

A New Quick-Load Spool for Barnack Leica (and Similar) Cameras

A review of the new quick-load spool released for Leica cameras by the upstart German 3D-printed accessory business Ausgeknipst.

petapixel.com

chuckroast said:
I've never thought so, and I've used a IIIf on- and off since the 1970s. It's worth noting, though that everything except the 50mm will require an external finder for framing and these tend to be easy to see through.

My absolutely favorite combo, and thus my street shooter, is the IIIf with a 21mm Color-Skopar and TT Artisan finder. That finder is big and bright and frames the scene close enough. Combined with almost no need to focus moment-to-moment, it's a great little setup.

How do you like the ttartisan finder? I saw one at my local camera shop, but it seemed really bulky. I have a cheapo plastic 21mm viewfinder from ebay and while it isn't the best quality, I like how it keeps the size to a minimum on a Barnack. I've been wanting to get a better finder but the overall bulk is holding me back.

Paul Howell · Dec 24, 2024

I bought the Ausegeknipst quickload spool for my Leica IIIC and Barnack copies and from testing loading it multiple times, you can load it without having to cut the film leader. Yeah I know some can do it without cutting....but for travel and not worrying about carrying a pair of scissors on a plane, I'll be using that spool.

Once I have my way back machine I would buy one and go back in time and leave it for me to find. I currently do not have an rangefinder with interchangable lens, might look at a IIIF or G, Canon 7s or Retina IIIS.

lobitar · Dec 24, 2024

Perhaps I have missed something, but off-hand I don't seem to have found any mention of the miissing parallax-correction in the Leica II & III. Nevertheless this was the reason I (foolishly) sold my wonderful, black Leica II several years ago. Now mostly use my M4-P.

JerseyDoug · Dec 24, 2024

lobitar said:
Perhaps I have missed something, but off-hand I don't seem to have found any mention of the miissing parallax-correction in the Leica II & III. Nevertheless this was the reason I (foolishly) sold my wonderful, black Leica II several years ago. Now mostly use my M4-P.

The IIIg has the same parallax correction as the M3, and roughly the same size viewfinder window.

Kodachromeguy · Dec 24, 2024

cliveh said:
I once bought a IIIG, as I had heard they were the bees knees. I put one film through it and didn't like the way it handled compared to older Barnacks. I just thought they were trying to pack too much into it. Not for me, so sold it on. But Barnacks are so damn tactile. This is the only decent photo I took with it.

View attachment 386188

I don't get it. How is handling a IIIG different? It is a tiny bit taller, but all the knobs and dials function the same as earlier Leica LTM bodies. Loading is the same.

Hassasin · Dec 24, 2024

Loading Leica LTM without trimming film leader is a felony and Leica fashion plice would likely have you arrested. Having said that, I was once crazy about getting the real deal original template for the "proper" trim using "proper" guide, only to realise the "science" behind the accuracy of the trim was closer to the similarity of a square and a circle.

chuckroast · Dec 24, 2024

Hassasin said:
Loading Leica LTM without trimming film leader is a felony and Leica fashion plice would likely have you arrested. Having said that, I was once crazy about getting the real deal original template for the "proper" trim using "proper" guide, only to realise the "science" behind the accuracy of the trim was closer to the similarity of a square and a circle.

You have to trim the leader, but you don't need the template to do it.

chuckroast · Dec 24, 2024

aw614 said:
I got my Leica IIIC back from a CLA last month with a new beamsplitter and I will say, it is clear and easy to focus with it. Shot one roll of film through it and it was a breeze. I've been on a Barnack binge lately including shooting with a Nicca Type IIIS and a Leotax F.

I bought the Ausegeknipst quickload spool for my Leica IIIC and Barnack copies and from testing loading it multiple times, you can load it without having to cut the film leader. Yeah I know some can do it without cutting....but for travel and not worrying about carrying a pair of scissors on a plane, I'll be using that spool.

A New Quick-Load Spool for Barnack Leica (and Similar) Cameras

A review of the new quick-load spool released for Leica cameras by the upstart German 3D-printed accessory business Ausgeknipst.

petapixel.com

How do you like the ttartisan finder? I saw one at my local camera shop, but it seemed really bulky. I have a cheapo plastic 21mm viewfinder from ebay and while it isn't the best quality, I like how it keeps the size to a minimum on a Barnack. I've been wanting to get a better finder but the overall bulk is holding me back.

I don't find the bulk objectionable, but good luck finding one these days.

250swb · Dec 25, 2024

Hassasin said:
Loading Leica LTM without trimming film leader is a felony and Leica fashion plice would likely have you arrested. Having said that, I was once crazy about getting the real deal original template for the "proper" trim using "proper" guide, only to realise the "science" behind the accuracy of the trim was closer to the similarity of a square and a circle.

Once upon a time gentlemen carried a pocket knife for cleaning out their pipe, for sharpening a pencil, or getting stones out of horses hoofs. And the template was designed to be used with a knife and not a pair of scissors although the principle of the length of cut and not to go halfway across a sprocket hole was still applicable if you did use scissors. And for anybody who has had a curling film or is trying to load a film in a hurry being fashionable has it's merits, and far, far better than pushing this way and that feeling like and looking a fool. It's a case of been there, seen it, done it, and I don't want to do it again, so I'm very fashionable, apparently?

Don_ih · Dec 25, 2024

Paul Howell said:
First you need to trim the film to fit, Leica sold templates. Doing so while shooting, the open the back loading was much easier.

If it's the camera you have, cut the film before you go anywhere. You don't need a template to cut 3.5" of film. People think it wastes film somehow - you waste more loading any slr.

I consider the loading of a IIIF more finicky than the previous ones, though. It's practically impossible to put film in a IIIa and not have it advance. There's something strange about the IIIf that makes that easy to do. But I haven't used the IIIf enough to know what that is....

Hassasin said:
Loading Leica LTM without trimming film leader is a felony and Leica fashion plice would likely have you arrested.

You run the risk shredding bits of film if you don't trim the leader. There's also the slight possibility of getting the corner of the film in the shutter track or poking a hole in the shutter itself. That corner is typically round but not necessarily if you're loading bulk (for which the camera was originally designed).

The last time I absent-mindedly put film in one without trimming it, the film tore and ended up wound in the shutter curtain. After rewinding (because the shutter stopped working), I eventually pulled 2 inches of film out of the shutter. No damage, luckily.

Paul Howell · Dec 25, 2024

If it's the camera you have, cut the film before you go anywhere. You don't need a template to cut 3.5" of film. People think it wastes film somehow - you waste more loading any slr.

I was a working photojournalist, the IIIG and Canon 7 were by second bodies with a 35 or 28mm. On the run, sometimes running short of film, buying whatever was available, not always possible. I was also very happy when I upgraded to the F2 with standard film loading, taking the bottom off the F was a pain as well. My IIIG had build quality, and it felt good in my hands.

chuckroast · Dec 25, 2024

Don_ih said:
I can't see why anyone would find loading a bottom-loading Leica difficult. You pull out the spool, shove the film in it, slip both spools in, close the bottom, advance the film, trip the shutter, the next advance is ready to expose.

IF you can pull up the spool. Those of us gifted with larger hands have trouble with that. So much so that Leica made an M2 style takeup reel for the IIIf (and earlier) cameras so that you have something to grab onto to pull. There ridiculously expensive at $80-100 but well worth it in my experience.

BradS · Dec 25, 2024

My first Leica was a IIIf with a 5cm f/3.5 Elmar. Although it was very capable of making lovely photos and I really loved the small size, it required to much futzing around for my taste and, I never quite got the hang of trimming the leader (I wish that I had had a template but they were just way to expensive and hard to come by). I now have an M2 and I prefer it to the little Barnack. It's just so much more user friendly, is almost as small and, is just as capable or producing lovely results.

Axelwik · Dec 25, 2024

Paul Howell said:
First you need to trim the film to fit, Leica sold templates. Doing so while shooting, the open the back loading was much easier. I think that the M2 M3 was a bit easier than the IIIG. The Nikon F was not much better.

To do a quick reload I sometimes keep a roll already connected to a spare take-up spool.

Dump the old cassette and take up spool, drop the new one in making sure the teeth are engaged, close, and wind on. I do it with my M2 and iiif.

Trimming the leader isn't a lot of work - do it beforehand and it's not an issue. Anyone with half a brain, the right attitude, and a little practice can effectively use an LTM Leica.

GregY · Dec 25, 2024

Barnacks are gems. I always wanted a lllg, but when i was in Japan the last time, I ended up coming home with this 1935 lll model f. By comparison the lllg was heavier & bulkier. Overall, I prefer my M4 and use it more, although my current favourite travel camera is the CL with a 28mm Canon LTM f2.8.

darinwc · Dec 25, 2024

Sirius Glass said:
Are the II and III hard to see through? The view finder windows look very small.

Yes. The windows are very small. If you wear glasses or have poor eyesight it may be a deal breaker.
However the separate finders means the viewfinder is bright and uncluttered.
The range finder is magnified (on the later cameras) and gives you very accurate focus.

The IIIg gives you a slightly larger finder with lines for 50mm that are parallax adjusting.

darinwc · Dec 25, 2024

Paul Howell said:
So, why a IIIF and not a IIIG?

Also, don't shy away from the earlier Ii and III cameras. In good repair they are 90% of the iiif. How often do you use 1/1000 or slower than 1/25?

Leica M or Leica IIIF?

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