Leica R3 ELECTRONIC: Stiff mirror mechanism repaired

Andreas Thaler

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I have a nice R3 here, in which the electronics are obviously still working properly (lucky!), but the mechanism in the mirror box seems to be resinified. The mirror only works as it should when I place the camera on the prism. Otherwise it will stop halfway

I know from a training R3 that dismantling the housing is difficult. The camera is screwed like a safe, I can't reach the mirror box.

Is there a solution without disassembling or am I just left with the workshop?

I have a similar problem with a heavily used Nikon F3P.
 
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ic-racer

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I found this too on the Rollei SL35E. Even more subtle were cameras where the shutter appears to work and mirror goes up and down, but the first blade would not open at all, being forced down by the electronically released second blade unless the camera was upside down.

Maybe too on the Leica it is like the Rollei, where the first curtain is released by the mirror and the second curtain by the electronics. I found erratic shutter speed performance linked to the mirror mechanism rather than the electronics.

I'm curious as to what you will find!

I did take out the mirror box but did not disassemble the mechanism (like they show on the Nikon f2 videos), I merely placed fine lubricant at the rotating parts and grease where levers touched.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Before I send the camera to the workshop, I wanted to see on my training Leica R3 MOT ELECTRONIC if and how the mechanics of the mirror box can be reached, as I suspect there is a problem with resinification/lubrication.

The mirror box is easy to remove, it is held in place by five screws. However, a lot of cables have to be desoldered. Two cable pulls must also be separated.

Given the number and the complexity, I decided to use for this purpose the side cutters instead of the soldering iron

Here are some insights into the Leica R3 ELECTRONIC MOT:

 
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Andreas Thaler

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I won't try to repair it, it's too complex for me.

However, the overhaul of a Leica R7 with water damage in the workshop costed around EUR 600,- (USD 646,-).

So I have to think about whether I want to invest in the repair here.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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If the workshop tells me what the problems with aperture priority on the R3 causes (automatically generated times are incorrect), I might consider it. But I don't think I'll get any information on that
 
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Andreas Thaler

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I see some stiff grease and dirt here.

Perhaps the problem with the stuck mirror here could be solved by cleaning and re-lubricating.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Maybe a shortcut will work.

Pour some benzine through one of the openings, which will soften the stiffened grease on the mechanism but not completely remove it. With a curved needle on a syringe I should be able to reach the spot.

What do you think?



 
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summicron1

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dan goldberg sent me a picture of that wiring rat's nest to explain why he couldn't fix my R3 and was no longer accepting them. I parked mine in the basement and there it sits. The R4 and SL2 i got to replace it work just fine.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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summicron1 said:
dan goldberg sent me a picture of that wiring rat's nest to explain why he couldn't fix my R3 and was no longer accepting them. I parked mine in the basement and there it sits. The R4 and SL2 i got to replace it work just fine.
Click to expand...

Leica's debut in electronics
 
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Andreas Thaler

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It would be a shame to lose this one, as the electronics still work flawlessly. Problems with shutter speeds are known with the R3.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Perhaps these openings are even intended for maintenance, service hatches so to speak. What other function would they have?
 
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Andreas Thaler

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summicron1 said:
dan goldberg sent me a picture of that wiring rat's nest to explain why he couldn't fix my R3 and was no longer accepting them. I parked mine in the basement and there it sits. The R4 and SL2 i got to replace it work just fine.
Click to expand...

Never give up!

At least I was able to tame a crazy measuring needle:

Leica R3 MOT ELECTRONIC: Jumping metering needle repaired; front panel fixed with LEICA lettering

Today I unpacked the Leica R3 MOT ELECTRONIC that @miha sent me some time ago for an attempt to repair. After practicing on a well-worn R3 MOT for the last few days, I felt sufficiently prepared to get to work. See the story here describing all the technical details and guesses where the...
www.photrio.com
 
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Andreas Thaler

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I'm on the trail of the problem with the incorrect shutter speeds. I'm hoping it's defective capacitors, they can be replaced:

Leica R3: Mission Aperture Priority

The Minolta XE-1 (XE, XE-7) is discredited because its electronics become unreliable over the decades. Known symptoms are a jumping metering needle in the viewfinder and incorrect shutter speeds in aperture priority mode. Solid, fascinating technology, beautiful, but with problems: Minolta's...
www.photrio.com
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Mirror mechanism working again

A targeted injection of Zippo lighter fluid solved the problem with the sluggish mirror mechanism.





The leather covering can be easily removed with a little patience, but it is not self-adhesive and therefore has to be glued back on.




For comparison, here is the removed mirror box of an R3 MOT ELECTRONIC to the left of the R3 ELECTRONIC.

The self-timer is missing on the MOT.

This also explains the two larger diagonal openings, which are obviously part of the self-timer mechanism.






I use the curved cannula to measure the mirror box of the R3 ELECTRONIC.

On the R3 ELECTRONIC the mirror box is mounted and the locking mechanism is located just behind it.

Therefore the cannula can only be inserted just slightly and rotated in order to target the mechanism in the mirror box.




But it should be enough to reach the mechanism with a strong spray of Zippo as the simulation on the mirror box of the R3 MOT proves.

Here is the mechanism on the right side of the mirror box, viewed from the inside. The cannula is inserted from the outside through one of the openings. The arrow and ellipse show the approximate spray direction and area.




And it worked.

Here is the amount of Zippo that I injected.

The mirror now moves as it should, some Zippo is in the mirror box, but it evaporates there.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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The leatherette is quickly reattached using Pliobond, applied to both sides.

I don't remove the old adhesive because it doesn't create any bumps. The leatherette sits smoothly.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Conclusion
  • A problem that at first glance appears to be impossible to solve or only solvable with great effort (dismantling the mirror box when the wiring is dense) turned out to be a relatively simple exercise as shortcut.
  • Of course, carefully removing the old, viscous lubrication and re-greasing would be the correct approach. But the effort required and the risk of an intervention must always be considered.
  • I assume that the lighter fluid has softened the old lubrication and it is working again.
  • If the shortcut is not sufficient, I will flood the mirror mechanism from the outside with Zippo lighter fluid and then add Nyoil. This is a light oil, but should work well here. I do not see any risk for surrounding components, but the oil should be applied as precisely as possible to the area. A thinner cannula would be helpful here.
  • I do not want to know what a workshop would have charged me for this work. But I would like to know what the workshop would have done, but that will probably remain a trade secret

+++

All information provided without guarantee and use at your own risk.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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There is some oil between the first and second shutter curtains. You can see it when the shutter is charged.

I didn't check this beforehand, so I don't know if it's related to my shortcut or if it was like that before.

If so, then it was probably a bit too much Zippo.

The oil can be easily removed with Zippo and doesn't interfere with the slats.

I'll keep an eye on it.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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Function check
  • All shutter speeds appear plausible, as do the shutter speeds set by aperture priority,
  • integral and selective metering work,
  • the measuring needle does not jump.
  • New light seals and film can be inserted into this R3 ELECTRONIC
 
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Andreas Thaler

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There is no oil left on the shutter. I therefore assume that it got there before the shortcut. I also cannot explain how it could have gotten between the shutter curtains.

The mirror mechanism still works perfectly.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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The mirror mechanism has deteriorated overnight. The mirror stays up after the shutter is released and can be folded down again using the stop down lever.

I conclude that the approach using Zippo lighter fluid to clean the mechanism/soften the old lube was correct, but in the meantime the lubrication has solidified again.

I will therefore follow it up with a few passes of Zippo, observe the camera and then try lubricating it with Nyoil, again from the outside.
 
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Andreas Thaler

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I put three small amounts of Zippo through each of the holes in the mirror box and then two times a bit of Nyoil.




Then oil mixed with Zippo appeared again between the shutter blades, which shows the connection with the shortcut.




The emulsion can be easily removed using Zippo and a cleaning stick. This involves releasing the shutter several times.




The bellows shows whether there is still oil left, because Zippo evaporates when blown off, oil remains.







I can't do anything else with the shortcut. I'll keep an eye on the camera.

If the mirror gets stuck again, the only option is to remove the mirror box and clean/lubricate the mirror mechanism.

There will now be oil in the camera where it doesn't belong. However, I don't see any components near the right side of the mirror box that would be impaired by oil.

The two pictures are from my practice R3 MOT ELECTRONIC
 
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Andreas Thaler

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The shortcut didn't work, the mirror is stuck again.

So all I can do is remove the mirror box and look at the problem on site. Then I can also assess how much oil the shortcut has distributed where. In any case, it is mixed with Zippo and is sitting on the shutter blades. But that can be cleaned.

Wish me luck, I'm going to need it
 
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