Let me introduce you to Svema

paulbarden said:

Only the Foto 100 as far as I know.

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Ok, will report here my findings!

Tasma is in Tatarstan, a so-called republic of the Russian so-called federation. The location is Tatarstan’s capital, Kazan. Tasma produced professional photomaterials in USSR times, Svema did the amateur stocks section. Some products overlapped such as 16-mm. films that were manufactured by both plants. What had killed the enterprises was the lack of triacetate foil which came mainly from Germany.

KitosLAB said:

I would love to go to these guys in Shostka, but now it's really safer to go from Kyiv to Foma to the Czech Republic than to them. Yes, and time is limited, electricity is provided for two hours a day, you have to wait for this moment to fulfill domestic needs. For now, I will limit myself to chatting with the Svema manager on Instagram and will buy several 35mm rolls in the near future. In today's correspondence, the manager said that their film is better than Foma)) Perhaps this is marketing, or perhaps reality, we'll check.

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Thanks for the reply and I appreciate that right now and for possibly for a long period to come, travel to Shostka will be dangerous and that chatting to the Svema manager is all you can do on Instagram. Hopefully you can judge from his reply what are the facts. The key question is: Does Svema in Shostka actually manufacture the film? I'd hope the manager may be honest enough to answer this. However if it does not manufacture this film then getting an answer about who is the manufacturer may be very difficult

pentaxuser

Europan said:

Tasma is in Tatarstan, a so-called republic of the Russian so-called federation. The location is Tatarstan’s capital, Kazan. Tasma produced professional photomaterials in USSR times, Svema did the amateur stocks section. Some products overlapped such as 16-mm. films that were manufactured by both plants. What had killed the enterprises was the lack of triacetate foil which came mainly from Germany.

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I am unsure what "killed " means in you last sentence. Does it mean that Svema in Shostka no longer makes film because of the lack of triacetate foil but could in the future if supply of triacetate from Germany was resumed because it has all the equipment to make film or that even with a resumption of supply it no longer has the equipment to make film?

Thanks

pentaxuser

the coment that they would require a 200 metre order to make 46 mm film indicates that they are proably starting from 200 metre Bulk rolls. or perhaps larger.

the film I recived from the ukranian seller is on a VERY thin clear Polyester base with antihalation dye which disappears in processing..

Several sources have metioned that the original Shostka chemical plant was demolished. It made both film and magnetic tape under the Svema brand. (generaly with the Cryilic version of that name which looks more like CEBMA) so the new company seems to be just converting some other source of film.

My understanding, or at least my impression, was that Astrum now owned the Svema name, but Astrum only repackaged, they were never in the business or had the capability to coat or manufacture film, Tasma in Russia being the actual manufacturer of many of their offerings. I think this ‘Svema lives’ myth may have been perpetuated by some as a marketing angle, but in actuality it ‘lives’ in name only.

That being said, with the Russian aggression towards Ukraine, it remains to be seen what will become of Astrum’s supply chain.

I wouldn't want to hear more about Tasma here without proof. This offends both me and Ukrainians in general. Today the Russian bastards again bombarded Kyiv with explosions all night long. These drunk smelly creatures are not capable of producing anything but vodka and they even buy drones for attacks in Iran. Made in Russia = Made by Satan. Therefore, I would not like more unfounded assumptions about smelly Russian industries without evidence.

My childhood and youth were spent in Donbass. Nearby was the chemical plant No. 64. On the surface there were several workshops that produced washing powder and household goods. But all the main production was underground; rocket fuel and some components of the rockets themselves were produced there. It is naive to believe that Svema was not engaged in the military industry, and if the workshops are broken, then there is no factory))) And in general, I do not exclude the possibility that this film is associated with airbrushing, hence the sensitivity to red. Most of what the Russian bastards fire at us was made in Ukraine. With the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine transferred this to Russia in accordance with the International Security Guarantees signed by the Budapest Memorandum. Now we see the price of International Guarantees
P/S We don't have a single whole electrical power plant, but this does not mean that we are without electricity. Yes, it's not enough, but it's there. And we don't buy electricity from the Russians. On the contrary, they stole the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant from us.

KitosLAB said:

These drunk smelly creatures are not capable of producing anything but vodka

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And even this - of very questionable quality. And having lived my childhood under the corrupt Russian rule under the Soviet flag - I can attest: being under the Russian influence means being forced to retard your economy, industry and development to the past for at least a couple of decades and quite instantly: good thieves, rapists and subduers, poor maintainers and innovators. And makes sense, considering the modern Russian history - the systemic mass purges, killings and deportation of the smartest minds of Russia. What you're left with is incompetent bastards unable to entertain a one worthwhile thought. A nation of gopniks.
I like to entertain another thought: what would be of Russia today if it didn't steal Nuclear power back then? A beautiful crater I guess, because somebody should shut down that factory of incompetent evil.

What I guess is that some members aren't thinking through what they're really assuming, the reality of it and how that must look

But they can be excused, living oceans away from this. And they can be understood: manufacturing film is really an endeavor, many fields of production and research must come together to make machines that make film, to maintain it. If it was fresh film from their factories, the respective people in charge would explode with pride, but this isn't what's happening. And being kept in the dark, one must entertain wild ideas.
And based on the responses and the reality of war - definitely a small scale operation and to my uneducated eyes repackaging is the answer.
Especially considering how I got my Astrum/Svema order packaged: all rolls put into reusable canister with no markings, no DX code, the box carries the branding solely. Cannot speak of edge markings, haven't developed yet.


In my world even repackaging is welcome if that means increased availability of technical emulsions in Europe under different branding. Especially for good price and bulk quantities. It's just that brutal honesty is what's potentially missing here, and people are forced to entertain wild ideas in the absence of first-hand information.

I too - totally in the dark and bought this film purely out of curiosity and based on my assumptions - some info would be nice

Well we understand why, the complete diversion of this thread to politics and the military hostilities in and around Ukraine is against our "no politics" rule here. Please return to film!

MattKing said:

Well we understand why, the complete diversion of this thread to politics and the military hostilities in and around Ukraine is against our "no politics" rule here. Please return to film!

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I just asked for no more speculation about Tasma without evidence. And yes, even under the Soviet Union, Tasma film was of very poor quality, we used it only as a last resort when there was nothing else to shoot. Now "THEY" do not produce anything. Even nesting dolls with balalaikas are made in China

KitosLAB said:

I just asked for no more speculation about Tasma without evidence. And yes, even under the Soviet Union, Tasma film was of very poor quality, we used it only as a last resort when there was nothing else to shoot. Now "THEY" do not produce anything. Even nesting dolls with balalaikas are made in China

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As a Polish-American, my grandparents came to this country from Poland. They knew, all too well, the horrors of living under Russian dominance. And, for the record, the Russian aggression in Ukraine sickens me. I’m sorry if my mention of Tasma offended you.

Still, Tasma is a film manufacturer, and this is a film forum. I don’t understand why we should be banned from even mentioning the company simply because it upsets you. Especially since it has bearing on this particular thread. I have no intention of ever buying film manufactured by them, repackaged or otherwise.

Ten301 said:

As a Polish-American, my grandparents came to this country from Poland. They knew, all too well, the horrors of living under Russian dominance. And, for the record, the Russian aggression in Ukraine sickens me. I’m sorry if my mention of Tasma offended you.

Still, Tasma is a film manufacturer, and this is a film forum. I don’t understand why we should be banned from even mentioning the company simply because it upsets you. Especially since it has bearing on this particular thread. I have no intention of ever buying film manufactured by them, repackaged or otherwise.

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I apologize, the night was under fire and very nervous. I did not mean the very name of the Tasma brand. I meant that the cooperation of the Ukrainian company with Tasma is impossible. Including before the start of the 2022 war. Because such cooperation offends a Ukrainian, but in addition, it can be criminally punishable. There is no cooperation between Svema and Tasma and cannot be in principle. Therefore, this film has nothing to do with Tasma. Please accept this as a postulate or prove the opposite. Once again I apologize And yes, I started this topic with very good intentions and an open mind.

KitosLAB,
We can appreciate the depth and breadth of your passion about this, and appreciate the good intentions.
One caution though: it seems beyond the realms of possibility to even hope that people on internet forums about film won't speculate about it - often without much solid information behind the speculation..
If you spend some time reading through the threads here, you will find evidence about speculation - both informed and uninformed - about what sometimes seems to be every single brand and type of film known!
For many of us, the film manufacturing and merchandising in your part of the world is poorly understood, but still very interesting.
We appreciate any information you can provide. Please do your best to respond with tolerance, rather than anger, if someone seems to be getting something wrong.

Oh friends! I am very sorry that I gave vent to my nerves, in my defense I will only say that this is the result of more than 12 hours of shelling, which has just ended. I am very comfortable and calm here, I don’t want to break the rules, especially I don’t want to offend or offend anyone’s feelings. I will try to communicate in the language of photographs. Svema ordered several rolls, waiting for delivery. Once again I apologize.

As per article in Ukrainian (link) posted above the svema factory is demolished. Its last production was xray film in 2003. The plant was flattened in 2018.

The continued existence of a svema ‘factory‘ was something promoted by FPP probably in error.

Astrum was established in 1995 by ex svema employees and rented small premises on the site for converting /packing film, with xray film a key market. They have sold film from various sources certainly in the past including tasma nk2, but also kodak aerocolor. Astrum acquired the rights to the svema name in around 2018 which they now apply to films for nostalgic value.

Arcadia4 said:

As per article in Ukrainian (link) posted above the svema factory is demolished. Its last production was xray film in 2003. The plant was flattened in 2018.

The continued existence of a svema ‘factory‘ was something promoted by FPP probably in error.

Astrum was established in 1995 by ex svema employees and rented small premises on the site for converting /packing film, with xray film a key market. They have sold film from various sources certainly in the past including tasma nk2, but also kodak aerocolor. Astrum acquired the rights to the svema name in around 2018 which they now apply to films for nostalgic value.

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And as additional information:
Some years ago when Astrum started wider distribution efforts outside Ukraine some years ago, one of their distribution partners contacted me. And in the information exchange I got the confirmation of my knowledge that the Svema film production (emulsion making and coating) was stopped at the beginning of the 00ies. And that the factory was dismantled after the production stop.
Therefore the films offered under Svema brand name by Astrum have been manufactured by other film manufacturers. Astrum has bought the film from other sources and converted / finished / confectioned it by themselves.
A friend of mine has used some of their films and tested them, and found e.g. Kodak Aerocolor and one Tasma film (the nk2 if I remember right) as the original material.

Best regards,
Henning

KitosLAB, echoing what Matt said, I hope it is OK to say that I believe you have the sympathy of everyone here in terms of what is happening right now in Ukraine. It is terrible for the whole of the Ukraine and especially for those near the frontline of hostile action

Speculation is what happens in forums but eventually with your help we will know more

pentaxuser

Arcadia4 said:

As per article in Ukrainian (link) posted above the svema factory is demolished. Its last production was xray film in 2003. The plant was flattened in 2018.

The continued existence of a svema ‘factory‘ was something promoted by FPP probably in error.

Astrum was established in 1995 by ex svema employees and rented small premises on the site for converting /packing film, with xray film a key market. They have sold film from various sources certainly in the past including tasma nk2, but also kodak aerocolor. Astrum acquired the rights to the svema name in around 2018 which they now apply to films for nostalgic value.

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I've read this article, it's very interesting. The last production was in 2003 and by 2005 the plant was in ruins. All the machinery was sold for scrap, archives were recycled and the thermal electric unit was sold to pay for debts. Astrum folks knew Svema was heading south so they bought one of the nearby unused buildings to start their own small operation along with 30 other ex-employees. Their decision proved to be good as less than a decade later the 15 000 employees of Svema, 1/3 of the town, had lost their job.

Henning Serger said:

And as additional information:
Some years ago when Astrum started wider distribution efforts outside Ukraine some years ago, one of their distribution partners contacted me. And in the information exchange I got the confirmation of my knowledge that the Svema film production (emulsion making and coating) was stopped at the beginning of the 00ies. And that the factory was dismantled after the production stop.
Therefore the films offered under Svema brand name by Astrum have been manufactured by other film manufacturers. Astrum has bought the film from other sources and converted / finished / confectioned it by themselves.
A friend of mine has used some of their films and tested them, and found e.g. Kodak Aerocolor and one Tasma film (the nk2 if I remember right) as the original material.

Best regards,
Henning

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It's possible, even probable that they did business with Tasma but it would have had to be a pre-Crimean invasion. Let's not forget that the war has been going on since 2014. Regarding Kodak, they are mentioned on Astrum's site as a business partner.

Astrum100 film, Smena8M camera. This is near my house. I took pictures last summer 2022. About the film, I can say that there are no identification marks on the perforation and it is much thinner than Foma in thickness. That's all for now. What will be Svema - I'll try to tell you. Thanks to everyone for the words of support.

I have been assuming, based on the mention of distributing Kodak AREO films in Ukraine on one of the ASTRUM websites that the original coating is likly by Kodak or a Kodak partner. in "normal" times I would consider this a curiosity product. But in normal times the folks selling this would have a wider market.

the film form a couple of batches that I have developed so far also did not have any edge markings.

while the political situation (war and invasion) is ongoing, I am naturaly picking the side of the country that has been invaded. (and knowing that many folks in Canada have roots in Ukraine.) doing my part to me has had me buying some film, and a few FED and incorectly spelled Kiev cameras from sellers in Ukraine. any discussion of the political situation beyond that is something for the daily news and is not really on topic for analog Photography.

Today is January 27th. 1/27. I loaded my 127 Bella46 35mm Svema32 film and am off to shoot. I don't know what will come out of this venture, it's just an experiment.

Tsubasa said:

Really?
With a war ongoing?

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All the more reason for them to market their products. Sales bring in funds.

Tsubasa said:

Really?
With a war ongoing?

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This is exactly what I'm trying to figure out. And the first test results are disappointing. I have just developed a film received from them by Svema100. The first suspicion appeared when I started doing the test "3.14"
When wet, the emulsion acquired a pink tint and it was impossible to fully determine the darkening density. After developing Microphen 1/3 for 12 minutes, I got a transparent film covered with a veil. In the same developer, but with the addition of a little benzotriazole, I developed Svema130 film 40 years overdue. Photo result. For a 40 year old, I think it's perfect. Until the end of testing and making inquiries about the seller, I can’t say anything either good or bad, I can only say that I couldn’t make such a big mistake when developing.
P/S And a little about the war. In December, my daughter stayed for several days after arriving from Prague. Most of all, she was impressed by the fact that during the air raid, Ukrainians can safely go to the hairdresser for a haircut))) Life has not stopped, a lot of things work, but also a lot of scam. Going out the door, I can meet a neighbor armed like Rimbaud and calmly drink coffee with him. The state is busy with security issues and cannot fully control the business. When I am completely finished testing, I will report the results.

KitosLAB said:

I now do not believe that Russia is now capable of producing anything else besides vodka and weapons.

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Well, film is a weapon. Kind of. Tasma still can make film, but they didn't coat anything except Type 42 and Type 25 aerial recon films for decades.

Helge said:

Post in thread 'Astrum, Svema, Tasma film'
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/astrum-svema-tasma-film.167609/post-2180779

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That is not entirely correct. Svema did not completely shut down film production until 2010(xray film mainly and small runs of stuff like FN-64 in sheets), so hardly one of the first ones to go. Regarding buildings and equipment, magnetic tape coating and film cutting+perforating+packaging facilities were preserved by Astrum

pentaxuser said:

I admit that I am still not clear: Is there a Svema film factory in the Ukraine actually producing this film daily in a similar fashion to say Kodak Ilford or Foma?

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Unfortunately, the most likely answer to this is no. When asked about this, Astrum admitted that they do have the technical possibility, but they don't have money to coat a batch of film

Andrew O'Neill said:

Is there a link to purchase, particularly for Astrum Foto 100 4x5?

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They have an instagram page, instagram.com/svema_official (hope that's allowed). The guy that runs this page is Dmitry Varenyk's son. Some may already know Dmitry, before the insta page you had to write to his email to order film. He is one of Astrum's co-owners, but his son didn't even know what "to coat film" means when the page was just created, so I couldn't get too much info out of him.

Europan said:

Tasma produced professional photomaterials in USSR times, Svema did the amateur stocks section

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That is completely incorrect. Tasma was always considered to be inferior in quality to Svema (completely deserved btw), and mainly specialized on movie duplicating, technical, aerial recon and amateur bw stocks. Both amateur and professional color stocks made by Tasma are simultaneously much more rare than Svema's and of worse quality. Furthermore, Tasma never manufactured the advanced (by soviet standards) films like LN-9 and DS-100(the only Svema's C-41 film). Triacetate was manufactured on-site too, but after the volumes dropped and the facility was closed, it indeed had to be imported from Germany. Svema even had to sell one of the coating machines to Germany in exchange for acetate

MCB18 said:

Got this email in regards to cut film sizes:


Your letter was forwarded to me, in which you ask me to sell you 70mm, 61.5mm and 46mm film. Perforated and non-perforated. We can offer you such films only without perforation in rollers, the minimum order for each of these films must be 200 meters. Film price 70 mm not perforated per 1 meter 3.7 USD.
Film price 61.5 mm not refarmed for 1 meter 3.6 USD.
Film price 46 mm not perforated per 1 meter 3.63YUSD. We will provide you with the necessary technical documentation in English.

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Lul, what? I bought 5 meters of 120 Foto 100 from them. Granted, it was pre-war, but why would this change? I can ask them about a smaller order, if you want.

Ivo Stunga said:

Especially considering how I got my Astrum/Svema order packaged: all rolls put into reusable canister with no markings,

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These are actually the authentic Svema's canisters, manufactured on the same equipment, but not NOS, because plastic is a bit different and the spool is a bit shorter


All in all, current Svema is most likely repackaged Agfa Aviphot and/or some other aerial/technical stocks. But that doesn't mean it's not worth buying. These stocks don't seem to be readily available anywhere else, this film is manufactured using the authentic Svema equipment and Astrum makes efforts towards improving the quality. For example, for at least 5 years, all their boxes had hand-written batch numer, dev.time and expiry date, +- 2 months ago the boxes started to come with this info stamped, exactly like on the "real" Svema boxes. Doesn't seem like much, but that means they repaired the equipment needed for this, and for a compay of their size I think it's admirable. They are also making efforts toward making the box design less awful. I've seen the "next" version that they got from designer, but it is somehow even worse, so I don't think it will be hitting the shelves any time soon