Mounting fibre paper in an album

mudfly9 · Mar 7, 2014

I've been working on my darkroom skills for a while now and finally feel ready to offer an entire album of prints from a wedding shoot, rather than just a DVD of scans and a few mounted prints. When showing the bride-to-be different paper types, she went straight for the Ilford Fibre Warmtone before I had a chance to say that only the RC ones were suitable for putting in album (she clearly has good taste as it's my favourite paper too!). I've agreed to it for the time being and am going to be conducting some tests with a few different glues to see what works, starting with starch paste.

Does anyone have any experience with gluing FB into an album? Will I have to pick an album that's got relatively thick pages to stop the paper curling up at the edges?

fretlessdavis · Mar 7, 2014

I've been working on something similar...ish

Been working on a 5x7 portfolio to take with me, as I get all kinds of comments about my MF and LF stuff... quite a bit about my MX, too, so I figured if I could show off some work, and distract people from questions, so I can duck back under the dark cloth.

Anyways--

I've been experimenting, and so far this is what is working for me:

Contact prints, 4x5 from MF, and a couple 35mm shots at 3.75 x 5.75, all dry mounted on 1/16" archival foam core, with an offset to one side to allow room for binding. The first couple I've done seem to curl a bit, but not bad. They're living under a bunch of books now to see if I can calm it down.

Haven't decided on a cover yet, but am tinkering with the idea of covering them-- 5x7 archival sleeves, and then binding the whole thing together on the offset side.

So far it's been working for me, but YMMV, and I'd likely do a thicker foam core or mat board if I was doing anything bigger.

jeffreyg · Mar 7, 2014

You may want to consider using a portfolio presentation album that would not require gluing or dry mounting. They are available in a variety of sizes and cover finishes. Some have removable pages and some with a fixed number of pages. It would be less work and you could change photographs if desired.

My experience with making a hand-made book is limited (2) but as pages put together get thicker the outer edges (the side not bound to the cover) don't line up and need to be cut by a printer or book binder who has that equipment. For the books I made, I printed the images digitally on cotton fiber paper and glued and sewed then had the opposite edges cut at a print shop before hand making the cover and assembled the parts into a book. It was quite time consuming but came out quite nice. But I set out to make a book as an art piece to begin with.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

ROL · Mar 7, 2014

I think you're doing a disservice to your fiber prints by not dry mounting them and presenting them to clients in portfolio form. But if they are small, I'm assuming 8x10 or less but possibly as large as 11x14, you should be able to flatten them sufficiently in a press, leave them under weight for a few weeks allowing them to fully 'relax', and then tip them into the pages of an album. Very classy, and still honors the medium.

BTW, this is a Presentation & Marketing forum question.

Gerald C Koch · Mar 7, 2014

Use dry mount tissue. This is a tissue with thermosetting adhesive on both sides. Usually a heating press or dry mount tacking iron is used but an ordinary iron using the silk setting can be used. The prints cannot curl since the entire print is "cemented to the album page.

David Allen · Mar 8, 2014

The best solution would be to use an archival double-sided mounting material (like a giant roll of double-sided tape).

Although relatively unknown in the UK, there is a German product that fulfills this role perfectly being easy to use, not needing a Dry Mounting Press and has passed the Photographic Activity Test for archival materials.

Neschen Gudy 831 | 802 are pressure sensitive cold mounting adhesives in a roll form that can be used to make most any smooth surface self-adhesive. Perfect for mounting photos or other heat sensitive graphics gudy 831 | 802 can be applied without the need of heat or expensive machines. One of our most aggressive adhesives gudy 831 | 802 has a traditional construction using a non-woven paper center that is coated on both sides with our own high tack acrylic adhesive. gudy 831 | 802 is both acid and solvent-free and has passed the Photographic Activity Test (per ISO 14523) making it ideal for permanent archival mounting of photographs.

These mounting films come in rolls that are 2ft wide x 33ft long. There is nothing in the box but the roll itself. No release paper and no squeegee. No instructions either because they are not needed. Below are instructions to show how easy it is to use.

Roll out a sufficient length of the Gudy, place the print on it face-up and press down to make the print stick. Cut round the edges with a scalpel and straight edge. Peel off the silicone-coated backing, place the print on the mount board and again press down to ensure adhesion. When placing the print, whether on the adhesive surface of the Gudy as the first step, or subsequently on the mount board, it is a good idea to start at one end and then lower the rest into position bit by bit, firming down as you go.

You can order it from Monochrom in Germany here:

http://www.monochrom.com/Gudy-Kaltklebefolie-831.htm?websale8=mono-c&pi=1460

and I also believe that Firstcall stock it in the UK.

AndreasT · Mar 8, 2014

You can also get Gudy at Boesner. Good stuff, as long as you work clean and mount the print carefully. It sticks so well if the print falls onto the Gudy stuff you can make a new print.

doughowk · Mar 8, 2014

I'd suggest trying the Scotch 568 positional mount adhesive liner. Its like dry mount tissue but sticky on both sides. Just use pressure. It should be available in rolls the size you need.

mudfly9 · Mar 8, 2014

This Gudy stuff sounds good and it's sold in the UK by Firstcall Photographic, think I'll give it a go!

Ghostman · Mar 10, 2014

If you are in York, England you might want to consider attending this series of courses by John Blakemore on sequencing and book making. They are held in Derby, not too far away from you.

miha · Mar 10, 2014

David Allen said:
The best solution would be to use an archival double-sided mounting material (like a giant roll of double-sided tape).

Although relatively unknown in the UK, there is a German product that fulfills this role perfectly being easy to use, not needing a Dry Mounting Press and has passed the Photographic Activity Test for archival materials.

Neschen Gudy 831 | 802 are pressure sensitive cold mounting adhesives in a roll form that can be used to make most any smooth surface self-adhesive. Perfect for mounting photos or other heat sensitive graphics gudy 831 | 802 can be applied without the need of heat or expensive machines. One of our most aggressive adhesives gudy 831 | 802 has a traditional construction using a non-woven paper center that is coated on both sides with our own high tack acrylic adhesive. gudy 831 | 802 is both acid and solvent-free and has passed the Photographic Activity Test (per ISO 14523) making it ideal for permanent archival mounting of photographs.

These mounting films come in rolls that are 2ft wide x 33ft long. There is nothing in the box but the roll itself. No release paper and no squeegee. No instructions either because they are not needed. Below are instructions to show how easy it is to use.

Roll out a sufficient length of the Gudy, place the print on it face-up and press down to make the print stick. Cut round the edges with a scalpel and straight edge. Peel off the silicone-coated backing, place the print on the mount board and again press down to ensure adhesion. When placing the print, whether on the adhesive surface of the Gudy as the first step, or subsequently on the mount board, it is a good idea to start at one end and then lower the rest into position bit by bit, firming down as you go.

You can order it from Monochrom in Germany here:

http://www.monochrom.com/Gudy-Kaltklebefolie-831.htm?websale8=mono-c&pi=1460

and I also believe that Firstcall stock it in the UK.

Great info Allen, as always.

AlanC · Mar 10, 2014

Ghostman said:
If you are in York, England you might want to consider attending this series of courses by John Blakemore on sequencing and book making. They are held in Derby, not too far away from you.

A friend of mine attended one of these courses and Blakemore recommended Prit Stik for gluing in the prints. It is acid-free, apparently. I've used it myself to make three photo books and it does an excellent job of sticking down R.C. paper, fibre paper, and 300g inkjet paper. I don't cover the whole of the back of the print with it, just a strip round the edge.
This is a very cheap and simple solution that works very well. Just pop into Smiths in Coney Street and buy a stick!
Good luck.

Alan

Ghostman · Mar 10, 2014

AlanC said:
A friend of mine attended one of these courses and Blakemore recommended Prit Stik for gluing in the prints. It is acid-free, apparently. I've used it myself to make three photo books and it does an excellent job of sticking down R.C. paper, fibre paper, and 300g inkjet paper. I don't cover the whole of the back of the print with it, just a strip round the edge.
This is a very cheap and simple solution that works very well. Just pop into Smiths in Coney Street and buy a stick!
Good luck.

Alan

Wonderful tip, thanks Alan.

Just out of interest, what did your friend think of the course?

AlanC · Mar 10, 2014

Ghostman said:
Wonderful tip, thanks Alan.

Just out of interest, what did your friend think of the course?

He quite enjoyed it, and did, later, produce a book of his own. The course was put on by the Yorkshire Monochrome Group.
On reflection, I think I got more out of it than my friend, and I wasn't even there! This was because it kick-started me to do some books of my own, and I have found them great fun to do and if you work on themes, as I do, they give you a great sense of purpose.
The main problem I had was choosing the right book to stick the photographs into. My friend used a good quality sewn bound sketch book. A proper book with hard covers. I think this was what Blakemore recommended they come to the course with. But I found there were two problems with this type of book. Pages have to be somehow removed to make room for the thickness of the photographs. This can be done, with care. But it leaves the second problem. These books typically are made from 140 or 150g cartridge paper. This is only half the thickness of the photo paper that you are sticking onto it. To be durable I think the base paper should be at least as thick as the photo paper.
Eventually I came up with an alternative; a ring-bound watercolour pad. These are readily available from art shops, they have about a dozen sheets of thick watercolour paper and come in a good range of useful sizes. The ring binding allows them to expand when you put the photographs in.
But they do have one drawback. They have a soft front cover that says "Windsor and Newton" all over it. My solution to this has been to glue the front cover to the first watercolour sheet, using wallpaper paste, and then cover this thickened sheet with plain paper, front and back, using a simple bookbinder's method. I then cover the back, which is an unnatractive grey board, in the same way.
I did three books like this, then discovered an even better solution. Pink Pig! This is a company that makes watercolour pads (and sketchbooks) that have a hard front and back tastefully covered in a range of attractive colours. So the book comes ready to stick your photographs in. The only drawback is that sizes are more limited, but they do A4 and A3. I'm working on an A4 Pink Pig book at the moment, using 6" x 9" prints from 35mm negatives, which fit into the A4 format very nicely.

Alan

Ghostman · Mar 10, 2014

AlanC said:
He quite enjoyed it, and did, later, produce a book of his own. The course was put on by the Yorkshire Monochrome Group.
On reflection, I think I got more out of it than my friend, and I wasn't even there! This was because it kick-started me to do some books of my own, and I have found them great fun to do and if you work on themes, as I do, they give you a great sense of purpose.
The main problem I had was choosing the right book to stick the photographs into. My friend used a good quality sewn bound sketch book. A proper book with hard covers. I think this was what Blakemore recommended they come to the course with. But I found there were two problems with this type of book. Pages have to be somehow removed to make room for the thickness of the photographs. This can be done, with care. But it leaves the second problem. These books typically are made from 140 or 150g cartridge paper. This is only half the thickness of the photo paper that you are sticking onto it. To be durable I think the base paper should be at least as thick as the photo paper.
Eventually I came up with an alternative; a ring-bound watercolour pad. These are readily available from art shops, they have about a dozen sheets of thick watercolour paper and come in a good range of useful sizes. The ring binding allows them to expand when you put the photographs in.
But they do have one drawback. They have a soft front cover that says "Windsor and Newton" all over it. My solution to this has been to glue the front cover to the first watercolour sheet, using wallpaper paste, and then cover this thickened sheet with plain paper, front and back, using a simple bookbinder's method. I then cover the back, which is an unnatractive grey board, in the same way.
I did three books like this, then discovered an even better solution. Pink Pig! This is a company that makes watercolour pads (and sketchbooks) that have a hard front and back tastefully covered in a range of attractive colours. So the book comes ready to stick your photographs in. The only drawback is that sizes are more limited, but they do A4 and A3. I'm working on an A4 Pink Pig book at the moment, using 6" x 9" prints from 35mm negatives, which fit into the A4 format very nicely.

Alan

Thank you for sharing this with us.

removed account4 · Mar 10, 2014

why don't you just get corners and tip them in ?
that way you don't have to deal with gluing
or pasting which while is reversible ( just soak paper in water )
it is a PITA ...

i have made a 25+ hand made books, some are with the photographs AS THE PAGE
meaning the sheet of photo paper was stitched, others were trimmed and pasted / glue paste mix
( top edge ), others i took a blade and cut a diagonal incision into the receiving paper and slid the corner in ....
they make and sell corner mounts that are made for this exact situation
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-...to-Mounting-Corners/zgbs/arts-crafts/12898901
lineco and other archival suppliers also sell some that are archival ...
i used to use them all the time for framing they came in boxes of 100 or 300 ...

you might also look at this book to get some ideas
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0830634835...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_5or0pwni8t_b
it offers easy step by step way to do things similar to what you hope to do ..

there are also companies that make photo albums that are very nice and might be a ready made answer to your problem.
good luck !
john

mudfly9 · Apr 7, 2014

I've bought some of the Neschen Gudy 802 and can confirm that it's brilliant stuff, very easy to use! I shall report back in 10, 25 and 50 years with status updates as to its durability.

Simon R Galley · Apr 7, 2014

I was always taught to use dry mounting tissue on mono FB paper,
.....and every other image that was to be mounted....

The best way, always was...always will be

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology limited

Ronald Moravec · Apr 8, 2014

Do not use glue. You never know long term effect.

Archival photo corners are best. Mine are from Light Impressions.

Leave a wide border.

removed account4 · Apr 8, 2014

Ronald Moravec said:
Do not use glue. You never know long term effect.

Archival photo corners are best. Mine are from Light Impressions.

Leave a wide border.

couldn't agree more, on both counts!
paste is better than glue .. rice or wheat starch ..
easy to make mix and use.
totally archival and reversible
and is stock in the trade of book conservation ..
i apprentices for a little while with a bookbinder who
conserved 300-400-500 year old bound books
even older ...
and paste was the adhesive of choice ...
in the book i linked to ( books boxes and portfolios )
the author suggests mixing a little pva ( poly vinyl acetate( white glue ))
to make a stronger bond
but i have never done this for the exact reasons you mention,

japanese bound books with a decorative hand stitched binding are a thing of beauty ...

===

OP,
hope you find a solution that works for you
john

ps. if you ever want to learn book making, the keith smith series is great

Rich Ullsmith · Apr 8, 2014

Small prints dry mounted on black 8X10 matboards are unbeatable for presentation. Book form is a distraction. A slick box is better. Many separate prints can be viewed, handled and compared simultaneously. Black mat board can be handled quite a bit without showing fingerprints.

Mounting fibre paper in an album

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