Need Help Spiral JOBO Tank 2500

yannjiang · Aug 20, 2019

Hi,

I met troubles when updated my development equipment with JOBO 2500 Series Tank.
I used the spiral like picture 1. (It's duo set 2502)

It has a capacity of 2 rolls at the same time.
So I developed 4 rolls at a time with D76 1:1 (two spirals).

It gave the result as two other images showed. The form of the spiral appear on the film.
And so many espace left with dark irregular signs (like cloud) on the negatives which means bright signs in the picture.

I rotated manually with two hands continuously, acted like CPP machine.
This method didn't gave any problems when I developed color negatives.
But for B&W film, I gave up. So could you please give any advices?

P.S. I'm sure no problem with camera. Film is well installed in the spiral. No leak of light in the tank.

Best regards,
Yann

AgX · Aug 20, 2019

yannjiang said:
Film is well installed in the spiral. No leak of light in the tank.

Looks like light leak to me. Did you install the central tube?

yannjiang · Aug 20, 2019

AgX said:
Looks like light leak to me. Did you install the central tube?

Yes. I installed the central tube. And I verified with my finger that the tube is well positioned. Because I had one time carelessly. Once the tube is not well placed, the light leak immediately and all film turned to dark. So I ensured it's not a light leak.

When I rotated it, I ensured frequently that the cap was well closed.

Thank you AgX!

koraks · Aug 20, 2019

Well, it sure does look like a light leak to me. Odds are that the incorrect center column was used, it was not installed properly (upside down?) or that the lid (the big one, not the flexible rubber one) was not seated properly.

yannjiang · Aug 20, 2019

koraks said:
Well, it sure does look like a light leak to me. Odds are that the incorrect center column was used, it was not installed properly (upside down?) or that the lid (the big one, not the flexible rubber one) was not seated properly.

I'd like to verify with you if your column doesn't look like strict vertical?

Please see my column in the picture.
When I closed the tank, I attached the column to the big tab within the holes.
So I took pictures too of the foot of the column.

Will this cause a light leak?

Neal · Aug 20, 2019

Dear Yann,

You have everything right with the tank and reels. There should be no issues. Are you sure that the fogging could not have taken place outside the camera or tank? Perhaps the roll wasn't tightly wound when removed from the camera?

Neal Wydra

Yann JIANG · Aug 21, 2019

Neal said:
Dear Yann,

You have everything right with the tank and reels. There should be no issues. Are you sure that the fogging could not have taken place outside the camera or tank? Perhaps the roll wasn't tightly wound when removed from the camera?

Neal Wydra

Hi Neal,

Thank you for help.
I can ensure that there is no problem with the camera because I developed another film yesterday night in Kindermann Inox tank and it appears OK.

Please see the attached image.

Yann

Yann JIANG · Aug 21, 2019

There are signs too when I developed 135 films the days before.
Because it's the roll I prepared from bulk film so I didn't think at first it was the tank problem.

It only appeared at some points, but still very annoying.

koraks · Aug 21, 2019

Please check if the center column falls into the protruding filler tube of the cap when the cap is put onto the tank. In my 2500 tank, the column has the tendency to slightly clamp onto the protruding filler tube so it is lifted along with the cap upon opening the tank.

Yann JIANG · Aug 21, 2019

koraks said:
Please check if the center column falls into the protruding filler tube of the cap when the cap is put onto the tank. In my 2500 tank, the column has the tendency to slightly clamp onto the protruding filler tube so it is lifted along with the cap upon opening the tank.

Yes. It is lifted with the cap.

Addtionally, I used D76 1+1 with 4 rolls of 120. So it's more than 2L chemistry in the tank.
I took care when I poured it out because it was heavy. It seems that there is no movements of the lid.

So it shouldn't be a light leak from the lid during the pouring.

It's really a mistery...

koraks · Aug 21, 2019

This is apart from the light leak issue, but why use >2L in this tank if you process using a rotation approach?

Yann JIANG · Aug 21, 2019

koraks said:
This is apart from the light leak issue, but why use >2L in this tank if you process using a rotation approach?

I noted that the min. amount for D76 per roll is 273ml and then diluted to 1:1 and 4 rolls. So 273 x 2 x 4 nearly = to 2L.

The tank is not only rotaried but also turned upside down. So normally there is no issue on uneven development.

I contacted the vendor this morning. They think probably is that the chemistry doesn't reach the film, but they aren't sure. So they contact JOBO instead.

This is their first time too. We will see.

When i left to work this morning, I filled the tank with water to see if there is any holes on the tank... I've manged different ways to find the problem...

AgX · Aug 21, 2019

Check if the collumn fits the tank more precisely the labyrint light seal, by placing in a darkened room the collumn into the tank and light with a tiny flashlight into the collumn.

Yann JIANG · Aug 21, 2019

AgX said:
Check if the collumn fits the tank more precisely the labyrint light seal, by placing in a darkened room the collumn into the tank and light with a tiny flashlight into the collumn.

Great idea. I'll do it tonight!
But normally it's German quality. And it's not a second-hand tank. It's a totally new one. If so, I gotta buy a lottery!

AgX · Aug 21, 2019

As indicated by others with the several versions of Jobo tanks there might be similar but different collumns.
I assume you bought your kit second hand, then nobody knows whether parts have been mixed up.

To get an idea on tiny differences see here:
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/jobo-reels-old-style-versus-new-style.103951/

Yann JIANG · Aug 21, 2019

AgX said:
As indicated by others with the several versions of Jobo tanks there might be similar but different collumns.
I assume you bought your kit second hand, then nobody knows whether parts have been mixed up./

I saw your thread last night. The tank, the lid, the rubber and the column is new one.
The reels were bought in second-hand.

But I can confirm that the all reels are well stuck on the column. No loose at all.

This is a whole roll which shows the affection just from one side. If there is a leak, it's probably from one side, but I'm not sure with the orientation of the reel.
In IMG_4766, you can find easily a dark square which probably the end of the film.

AgX · Aug 21, 2019

Of course we can exclude the reels here. The issue I hinted at of reels sliding on a non-approriate collumn relates only to the chance of not well being immersed during inversion processing as being stuck up above. or not turning during rotational processing.

Your case though is a case of light leak.

MattKing · Aug 21, 2019

See if you can find a source of flashing light that is battery powered and small enough to fit inside the sealed tank with reels installed - something like a bicycle light might work.
Turn the light on, close the tank and take it into a dark room.
If you can see the flashing light from outside the tank, you have a light leak.
A continuous light may also work, but it may not be as easy to see.

AgX · Aug 21, 2019

Wouldn't a light leak in the casing be obvious? At last with the tank filled and inverted it will become a dripping leak.

Sirius Glass · Aug 21, 2019

Are you sure that you used enough chemicals? Try the maximum levels.

Pieter12 · Aug 21, 2019

Here is an example of a light leak in a Jobo tank caused by the lid not being seated properly at first when the lights were turned on. Looks like yours.

mshchem · Aug 21, 2019

What is the exact number of 2500 series tank you have? The center column you show is for 2550/2551/2553 called multi-tank 5.
If you are using a multi tank 6, 2561, 2563, or a 2830 print tank your column is too short.

I would confirm that the funnel is properly attached to the inside of the lid.

You are using way too much solution for rotary processing.

yannjiang · Aug 21, 2019

MattKing said:
See if you can find a source of flashing light that is battery powered and small enough to fit inside the sealed tank with reels installed - something like a bicycle light might work.
Turn the light on, close the tank and take it into a dark room.
If you can see the flashing light from outside the tank, you have a light leak.
A continuous light may also work, but it may not be as easy to see.

HI Matt,

I've locked myself in the toilet and tried. Even though the column is not correctly produced, the column well blocked the light, so there is no leak for the tank.
it's not a light leak problem.

Thank you for your advice!

Best regards,
Yann

yannjiang · Aug 21, 2019

AgX said:
Wouldn't a light leak in the casing be obvious? At last with the tank filled and inverted it will become a dripping leak.

Hi AgX,

Thank you for your help!

I received a PM this afternoon. In his letter, he told me that is an over agitation. The signs left on the film is because I too violently rotated the tube manually.
I tried tonight more gently (but still violently). The effects decreased, but still there. It seems that I need to agitate the tube less frequently and less quickly.

Thanks anyway for your kind response!

Best regards,
Yann

yannjiang · Aug 21, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
Are you sure that you used enough chemicals? Try the maximum levels.

Hi Sirius,

The chemistry is enough. Actually, I prepared it according to the D76 user guide.

Yann

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