New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

lauffray · Jan 27, 2020

Alright well Kodak has confirmed it now, forget passing any film through a CT scanner. I'm not sure what to do to travel with film now.

"[...]To better assess the risk to film from the new carry on scanners we brought a small quantity of Portra 400/135 to John F Kennedy Airport in NYC. With the help of TSA representatives the film was put through the new carry on CT scanners. The initial results are not good. Just 1 scan shows significant film fogging, leading to smoky blacks and loss of shadow detail. This will be more significant for higher speed films[...]"

Russ - SVP · Jan 27, 2020

I’ll stick with hand inspection.

lauffray · Jan 27, 2020

Kiron Kid said:
I’ll stick with hand inspection.

What do you do when there's a line behind you and the guy refuses to check by hand?

Sirius Glass · Jan 27, 2020

lauffray said:
What do you do when there's a line behind you and the guy refuses to check by hand?

Request to speak to a supervisor.

koraks · Jan 27, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
Request to speak to a supervisor.

Good luck trying that in Europe. Hand inspection may be part of your statutory rights in the US, but there's no such thing in Europe. Over here you're lucky to get hand inspection and are 95% sure NOT to get it. So this basically ends the shoot-film-when-traveling adventure in Europe.

AgX · Jan 27, 2020

I must admit I am surprised, seeing their past information policy, to read this explicit warning by Alaris

I wonder when Alaris will update their technical sheet from last October.
The link I posted is still working, but I do not find the link anymore at their site.

Kodak themselves still have their old information, saying that the carry-on luggage scanners have less effect than those for checked luggage.

destroya · Jan 27, 2020

well, the news from kodak really sucks. I was planning on heading over the pond to do a small photo trip to france and london, but i guess i will now need to look for a suitable dig camera. this is disappointing. I really doubt that any place that does not already have a mandatory hand check when requested is going to work with us film shooters to help with this issue. I understand the reason for the new scanners. change always effects some people, just sad it effects film shooters.

now its time for the conspiracy fanatics to chime in. I waiting for "nikon and canon are behind it, to boost di camera sales and put an end to film" or something to that effect

CMoore · Jan 27, 2020

I guess if it is important, the solution would be to develop the film where it is, give the lab your address and have them ship the Negs to you.?

spijker · Jan 27, 2020

I'll likely bring my development tank on vacation this summer. Mail order film and chemicals locally and develop it before getting on the plane going home. Fotoimpex sells Adox stop & fixer in 100ml bottles. Just need to decide whether I'll stick to DD-X as developer or try something that comes in a powder or a smaller bottle. Anybody familiar with Adox FX-39 with Delta 100/400?

cowanw · Jan 27, 2020

Lauffrey, I can not find this on the Alaris web site. Are you suggesting "Kodak Professional" on Instagram is an official Kodak entity or perhaps an one individual's facebook page. - Not disbelieving but not really believing either,yet.

MattKing · Jan 27, 2020

cowanw said:
Lauffrey, I can not find this on the Alaris web site. Are you suggesting "Kodak Professional" on Instagram is an official Kodak entity or perhaps an one individual's facebook page. - Not disbelieving but not really believing either,yet.

Instagram and Facebook are now the primary means that Kodak Alaris uses to communicate.
They do update their website, but much more slowly.

Wallendo · Jan 27, 2020

KA's recent Instagram post is discouraging.

I enjoy shooting E6 film when travelling, and this can put a damper on things. When travelling domestically, I may just send my film in for processing before my return flight. I guess I can always carry a roll of Portra 800 to be on the safe side when going through US security. The two airports I use the most are primarily hubs with not a lot of local traffic, so security is usually friendly or quick. Destination airports are more likely to be rushed and less friendly. For foreign travel, I may just have to shoot digital as I don't want to spend most of my vacation tracking down a place to buy and develop film.

According to KA's instagram, they are working on warning stickers for distribution. This will probably be OK in the US, but overseas will be troublesome. I would really like to make another European trip and shoot Velvia or Ektachrome, but that may not be in the works.

cowanw · Jan 27, 2020

Ah, I see, Matt. Pardon my scepticism, eh!

cjbecker · Jan 27, 2020

I have not read threw the entire thread, but has the idea of lead film holders came up yet?

AgX · Jan 27, 2020

We discussed that in the past for lead bags/containers. Which would bring no benefit.

-) the operator, if possible, would crank up radiation to go through the lead
or
-) the operator would take the film out of the bag, putting the film roll alone through the scanner

I guess you refer to the same.

The only thing one would achieve is that the operator would be especiallly busy with that film. Whether by this a hand-inspection could be achieved, where such is not usual, is doubtful. At best it would give some protection against accidental radiation.

perkeleellinen · Jan 27, 2020

Remember those film processors that were the size of a suitcase for news outfits to set up temporary labs in hotel rooms? That's what we need!

My guess this will mean we all need to plan our trips around finding places to buy and process film.

AgX · Jan 27, 2020

The alternative would doing the gamble, by sending the unprocessed film by mail. As there are at least chances to get them through unharmed.
(see my post #130 on this)

Fraunhofer · Jan 27, 2020

https://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/...n/Transportation/Airport_Security/default.htm

For motion picture film, this advice seems pretty clear...

Saganich · Jan 27, 2020

koraks said:
Good luck trying that in Europe. Hand inspection may be part of your statutory rights in the US, but there's no such thing in Europe. Over here you're lucky to get hand inspection and are 95% sure NOT to get it. So this basically ends the shoot-film-when-traveling adventure in Europe.

I think I almost got arrested in France insisting on hand inspection and the Norwegians laughed at me.

wiltw · Jan 27, 2020

cowanw said:
Lauffrey, I can not find this on the Alaris web site. Are you suggesting "Kodak Professional" on Instagram is an official Kodak entity or perhaps an one individual's facebook page. - Not disbelieving but not really believing either,yet.

Found here, including a direct link to Facebook posting:

https://www.diyphotography.net/koda...el-with-film-through-new-airport-ct-scanners/

"At the moment, the US airports which currently implement CT scanning technology are the same seventeen as those reported in October.

Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL)
Baltimore-Washington International Airport (BWI)
Chicago O’Hare International Airport (ORD)
Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport (CVG)
Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport (DTW)
Houston Hobby Airport (HOU)
Indianapolis International Airport (IND)
John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK)
Logan International Airport (BOS)
Los Angeles International Airport (LAX)
Miami International Airport (MIA)
Oakland International Airport (OAK)
Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport (PHX)
Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport (DCA)
Louis Lambert International Airport (STL)
Tampa International Airport (TPA)
Washington-Dulles International Airport (IAD)

But the use of CT scanners is expected to expand into 145 airports across the US in the coming months."

pentaxuser · Jan 27, 2020

So is there any signs that Kodak and indeed the other film companies( lest I be classified as biased ) are attempting to help change the situation for air travellers flying to and from the U.S and within Europe or does Kodak consider the warning as sufficient action on its part and the rest of the film will simply follow suit?

pentaxuser

AgX · Jan 27, 2020

Fraunhofer said:
https://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/...n/Transportation/Airport_Security/default.htm

For motion picture film, this advice seems pretty clear...

Not quite... as at "transportation" Kodak got contradictary information.

At a page before that one you linked they say
"If inspectors refuse to hand-inspect, at least the amount of radiation the film receives will be less than if it were shipped as checked baggage."
At that page there is no mention at all of the new scanners. Reading this one likely does not expect that at another page they will seay something different, by hinting at the new machines.

wiltw · Jan 27, 2020

pentaxuser said:
So is there any signs that Kodak and indeed the other film companies( lest I be classified as biased ) are attempting to help change the situation for air travellers flying to and from the U.S and within Europe or does Kodak consider the warning as sufficient action on its part and the rest of the film will simply follow suit?

pentaxuser

Given the fundamental characteristic that these new CT carryon scanners expose film while speeding up security screening of boarding passengers, and give the fact that things are well in motion toward broad adoption of the technology at the majority of airports with commercial airline travel, I would inclined to make the SWAG that the answer is 'No effort by Kodak and others'...they simply do not have the clout or budgets that they once carried!
I think that that paired with the motion picture industry that sends reels of film from third world shooting locations to other countries to be processed, there might be a bit of hope that a resolution to this is found.

Wallendo · Jan 27, 2020

Fraunhofer said:
https://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/...n/Transportation/Airport_Security/default.htm

For motion picture film, this advice seems pretty clear...

This is from 2013

Probably about the same time that an episode of "Lost" had to be redone when a batch of 35mm film was shipped from Hawai'i to Los Angeles and accidentally radiated.

AgX · Jan 27, 2020

Wallendo said:
This is from 2013

Kodak say:
"Carry-on baggage inspection conveyors using low intensity x-rays, used at security checkpoints in US airports, usually do not affect film. However, these machines may now be supplemented in some cases by high intensity machines that will fog all unprocessed film."

But as I uindcated just above they also say something different at the same "transportation" topic too.

New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

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New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

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