The new formula would be what I would like to attempt. I need to figure out some space and equipment for processing. Is there anyone on here who has attempted creating the new formula?
You will need a Bunsen flask, a large amount of toluene (or other volatile solvent). You will also need good ventilation as volatile solvent vapors are explosive and toxic.
It is possible to obtain a complex of sulfur dioxide in DEA by bubbling SO2 through a solution of DEA in toluene. After saturation of the solution with sulfur dioxide, it will be sufficient to remove the toluene with slight heating at low pressure.
p.s. And if you are interested in the "new" formula, then everything is simpler. In fact, the main difference between the old formula and the new one is the replacement of the sulfur dioxide complex in DEA with a saturated water solution of potassium sulfite (± 65%).
I would recommend you do a "new formula". It is simpler, safer, and doesn't require complex equipment.
Just a safety warning here, speaking as a professional chemist, a bunsen burner should never be used to heat volatile organic solvents like toluene. Use and electric heating mantle instead. A bunsen burner is too much of a fire hazard. (By the way, I said "professional chemist" which is true, although it has been many years since I used either a bunsen burner or a heating mantle. My specialty has been in another area that seldom uses those items, but the advice I gave is from my training in school.)You will need a Bunsen flask, a large amount of toluene (or other volatile solvent). You will also need good ventilation as volatile solvent vapors are explosive and toxic.
It is possible to obtain a complex of sulfur dioxide in DEA by bubbling SO2 through a solution of DEA in toluene. After saturation of the solution with sulfur dioxide, it will be sufficient to remove the toluene with slight heating at low pressure.
p.s. And if you are interested in the "new" formula, then everything is simpler. In fact, the main difference between the old formula and the new one is the replacement of the sulfur dioxide complex in DEA with a saturated water solution of potassium sulfite (± 65%).
I would recommend you do a "new formula". It is simpler, safer, and doesn't require complex equipment.
Well I am not a professional chemist, but just someone with common sense and I also think it is not the smartest idea to use fire to heat something like toluene. I think it is nasty stuff anyway (well I know it is componet of thinner, maybe other things make it nasty)speaking as a professional chemist, a bunsen burner should never be used to heat volatile organic solvents like toluene.
Don't worry. No harm done.I don't know English very well, but how could I be understood in this sense - to heat DEA with toluene ??? If so, my apologies. The SO2 source will need to be heated !!! I hope you read a little chemistry textbooks before doing anything. It makes no sense to fully describe the production technology here, there is a mass of materials on the Internet on this issue.
p.s. I have successfully manufactured both the "old" and "new" versions of the DIY HC-110, but I am afraid that I will not be able to correctly describe the process in English, so that it is safe for you )))
UPD >> Wow, It's my mistake. I rely too much on auto-translator. And it replaced the term "Drexel bottle" with "Bunsen flask")))))) I don't understand how this happened. Perhaps this is how autocomplete worked, but I did not pay attention. Sorry guys!I hope no one has yet had time to set fire to their house ?!
No and thank goodness I was covered completely by Direct Line Home insurance which I bought from that nice man Harvey something.He was always popping up on U.K. TVDon't worry. No harm done.
I don't know English very well, but how could I be understood in this sense - to heat DEA with toluene ??? If so, my apologies. The SO2 source will need to be heated !!! I hope you read a little chemistry textbooks before doing anything. It makes no sense to fully describe the production technology here, there is a mass of materials on the Internet on this issue.
p.s. I have successfully manufactured both the "old" and "new" versions of the DIY HC-110, but I am afraid that I will not be able to correctly describe the process in English, so that it is safe for you )))
UPD >> Wow, It's my mistake. I rely too much on auto-translator. And it replaced the term "Drexel bottle" with "Bunsen flask")))))) I don't understand how this happened. Perhaps this is how autocomplete worked, but I did not pay attention. Sorry guys!I hope no one has yet had time to set fire to their house ?!
OK. In short, regarding the "new" formula, the process of making a DIY concentrate looks like this:
1. Prepare 65% potassium sulfite solution in distilled water. If you do not have a dry reagent, it can be obtained in a solution from metabisulfite and potassium hydroxide (be sure to control pH)
K2S2O5 + 2KOH → 2K2SO3 + H2O
2. Dissolve the required amount of hydroquinone in a small amount of propylene glycol (or ethylene glycol, but it is toxic)
3. Carefully, gradually pour the solution of potassium sulfite into the hydroquinone solution (on magnetic stirer)
4. Then add phenidone (dymezon, methyl-phenidone), borax, a little DEA (or a little more TEA), potassium bromide and mix thoroughly and for a long time until completely dissolved.
5. At the end, you can add a little polyvinylpyrrolidone (as was the case in the Kodak patent), but it seems to me doubtful that modern photographic emulsions are highly prone to dichroic fog. I skip this step usually.
At the end, the pH of the prepared concentrate should be adjusted to 10.0 (9.9 more precisely) with potassium hydroxide. Do not use alkaline buffering agents for this (eg TEA).
I have kept such a homemade concentrate in a half-empty bottle for more than 6 months and it has not lost its properties (did not darken, did not precipitate). I store it at room temperature, as I suspect that the problems with crystals in the "new" HC-110 are related to storage in refrigerators. And since the concentrate solution is on the verge of supersaturation, negative temperatures can cause crystallization of hydroquinone and sulfite. However, these are just my guesses, nothing more.
p.s. I hope you understand this my opus)))
OK. In short, regarding the "new" formula, the process of making a DIY concentrate looks like this:
1. Prepare 65% potassium sulfite solution in distilled water. If you do not have a dry reagent, it can be obtained in a solution from metabisulfite and potassium hydroxide (be sure to control pH)
K2S2O5 + 2KOH → 2K2SO3 + H2O
2. Dissolve the required amount of hydroquinone in a small amount of propylene glycol (or ethylene glycol, but it is toxic)
3. Carefully, gradually pour the solution of potassium sulfite into the hydroquinone solution (on magnetic stirer)
4. Then add phenidone (dymezon, methyl-phenidone), borax, a little DEA (or a little more TEA), potassium bromide and mix thoroughly and for a long time until completely dissolved.
5. At the end, you can add a little polyvinylpyrrolidone (as was the case in the Kodak patent), but it seems to me doubtful that modern photographic emulsions are highly prone to dichroic fog. I skip this step usually.
At the end, the pH of the prepared concentrate should be adjusted to 10.0 (9.9 more precisely) with potassium hydroxide. Do not use alkaline buffering agents for this (eg TEA).
I have kept such a homemade concentrate in a half-empty bottle for more than 6 months and it has not lost its properties (did not darken, did not precipitate). I store it at room temperature, as I suspect that the problems with crystals in the "new" HC-110 are related to storage in refrigerators. And since the concentrate solution is on the verge of supersaturation, negative temperatures can cause crystallization of hydroquinone and sulfite. However, these are just my guesses, nothing more.
p.s. I hope you understand this my opus)))
This thread is now approaching two years old. Has anyone bought the new HC110 long enough ago to at least get some idea of its shelf life?
And by the way, I don't recall if this question has been asked yet: Is the new HC110 the same thing as Legacy Pro L110?
Yes, but as I noted before, this solution will contain rather less sulfite than DDXOK. In short, regarding the "new" formula, the process of making a DIY concentrate looks like this:
1. Prepare 65% potassium sulfite solution in distilled water. If you do not have a dry reagent, it can be obtained in a solution from metabisulfite and potassium hydroxide (be sure to control pH)
K2S2O5 + 2KOH → 2K2SO3 + H2O
2. Dissolve the required amount of hydroquinone in a small amount of propylene glycol (or ethylene glycol, but it is toxic)
3. Carefully, gradually pour the solution of potassium sulfite into the hydroquinone solution (on magnetic stirer)
4. Then add phenidone (dymezon, methyl-phenidone), borax, a little DEA (or a little more TEA), potassium bromide and mix thoroughly and for a long time until completely dissolved.
5. At the end, you can add a little polyvinylpyrrolidone (as was the case in the Kodak patent), but it seems to me doubtful that modern photographic emulsions are highly prone to dichroic fog. I skip this step usually.
At the end, the pH of the prepared concentrate should be adjusted to 10.0 (9.9 more precisely) with potassium hydroxide. Do not use alkaline buffering agents for this (eg TEA).
I have kept such a homemade concentrate in a half-empty bottle for more than 6 months and it has not lost its properties (did not darken, did not precipitate). I store it at room temperature, as I suspect that the problems with crystals in the "new" HC-110 are related to storage in refrigerators. And since the concentrate solution is on the verge of supersaturation, negative temperatures can cause crystallization of hydroquinone and sulfite. However, these are just my guesses, nothing more.
p.s. I hope you understand this my opus)))
Yes, but as I noted before, this solution will contain rather less sulfite than DDX
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-hc-110-developer-not-the-same.176138/page-4#post-2310558
So, what is the ruling on longevity? I have some of this stuff in a sealed, amber glass bottle with no very little airspace from August 2019. What are my odds that it will still be good?
No one's actually interested in factual information regarding the new HC110. They'd much rather have something to complain about instead.
That's certainly one approach, and I won't say it is an invalid one... on an individual-by-individual basis. However, many of us are interested in knowing what the composition is, and for those of us who are interested in the question your approach of ignoring the composition is not the preferred one.How about just using it and not pretending mass spectrometry is going to yield information useful to anyone here.
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