Nikkormat FT3 vs early Minolta SRT102 which is better?

[GaryFlorida]

They both seem pretty solid. The FT3 doesn't have the aperture in the viewfinder. Other than that which one is better build quality, features, reliability, performance, ease of repair, desireability etc. ?

 

[Kino]

IMHO, they are pretty equally great.

Most people choose based on the lenses available, which again, are about equal.

I have both; love them both, but give a slight nod toward the Minolta due to the control layout being more convenient (in my opinion).

 

[Chan Tran]

I would say the FT3 has more accurate meter and doesn't need mercury battery.

 

[GaryFlorida]

I would say the FT3 has more accurate meter and doesn't need mercury battery.

good point. My Nikkormat needs a CLA . Meter only works from about EV 6 to EV17 should be EV 3 to 17. Can you tell me more about the meter being better on the nIkkormat?

 

[dynachrome]

I have many examples of both. They both have strong and weak points. The FT3 has a higher flash synch speed and does not take a mercury battery. It will work with pre-AI lenses with the AI tab flipped up. The most common problem with Nikkormats is the "jumpy meter needle" issue. Sometimes this can be fixed and sometimes not. The Nikkormats sold in Japan were called Nikomats. The FT3 was made for only a short time and is not as plentiful as the earlier FT2 and FTN models. All Nikkormats have vertically running metal shutters.

The 102 has a cloth horizontal shutter and I think it is somewhat quieter. It was sold as the SRT Super in Japan and the SRT 303 elsewhere. For no particular reason, the Super is my favorite version. The 102 was made to use a 1.35 volt mercury battery. My repairman has converted many of my SRTs to 1.5 volts. Now I use 625A (A for alkaline) batteries. You can also get an MR-9 adapter which fits in the battery compartment. It accepts an MS-76 or A76 battery and converts the voltage to 1.35. I would suggest instead a 386 silver oxide battery. It's slightly slimmer and will not make the battery cover stick out. If you can work out the battery issue, you will like the 102. It does not suffer from jumpy meter needle. You can't go wrong with either one but they were both made a long time ago so it would be wise to get them serviced. By now most of these have bad foam seals and mirror foam and the shutter speeds can also be adjusted.

 

[Chan Tran]

good point. My Nikkormat needs a CLA . Meter only works from about EV 6 to EV17 should be EV 3 to 17. Can you tell me more about the meter being better on the nIkkormat?

Since the FT3 uses silver oxide battery which the voltage will change as it being used it has circuit to make it works without having accurate battery voltage. Do you have an f/1.4 lens on it? I think the EV range is specified if you have lens with f/1.4

 

[tomkatf]

I think the FT3 has far more Nikkor lenses available... I don't think it's even close...

 

[GaryFlorida]

Since the FT3 uses silver oxide battery which the voltage will change as it being used it has circuit to make it works without having accurate battery voltage. Do you have an f/1.4 lens on it? I think the EV range is specified if you have lens with f/1.4

No I dont but it seems it has no problem in daylight but when the lighting is dimmer is when the meter gets jumpy or stops responding.

 

[GaryFlorida]

I have many examples of both. They both have strong and weak points. The FT3 has a higher flash synch speed and does not take a mercury battery. It will work with pre-AI lenses with the AI tab flipped up. The most common problem with Nikkormats is the "jumpy meter needle" issue. Sometimes this can be fixed and sometimes not. The Nikkormats sold in Japan were called Nikomats. The FT3 was made for only a short time and is not as plentiful as the earlier FT2 and FTN models. All Nikkormats have vertically running metal shutters.

The 102 has a cloth horizontal shutter and I think it is somewhat quieter. It was sold as the SRT Super in Japan and the SRT 303 elsewhere. For no particular reason, the Super is my favorite version. The 102 was made to use a 1.35 volt mercury battery. My repairman has converted many of my SRTs to 1.5 volts. Now I use 625A (A for alkaline) batteries. You can also get an MR-9 adapter which fits in the battery compartment. It accepts an MS-76 or A76 battery and converts the voltage to 1.35. I would suggest instead a 386 silver oxide battery. It's slightly slimmer and will not make the battery cover stick out. If you can work out the battery issue, you will like the 102. It does not suffer from jumpy meter needle. You can't go wrong with either one but they were both made a long time ago so it would be wise to get them serviced. By now most of these have bad foam seals and mirror foam and the shutter speeds can also be adjusted.

How can I know if the meter can be fixed on the FT3? So even your repair guy cant fix some meter issues with FT3? Also the frame counter pointer is not in the middle of the window its way up in the corner. Is this an easy fix?

 

[GaryFlorida]

I would say the FT3 has more accurate meter and doesn't need mercury battery.

I have several AI lenses but I like the look of the old lenses on the Nikkormat but I dont have any of those.

 

[Paul Howell]

Nikkormates were used as backup to Fs and F2, I knew a couple of PJ who shot with Nikkormats as they rugged and were more than a little cheaper than an F. I have a 102 and 201, I like both, easy to use, work well with hearing aid battery. At least with black and white film, exposure seems good. Although there might be a wider range of lens for Nikon, unless you are are a collector Minolta made all lens you will likely use. As inexpensive as the 101 and Nikkormat are I would be buy both, run some film though them and sell the one you don't like as much.

 

[GaryFlorida]

Since the FT3 uses silver oxide battery which the voltage will change as it being used it has circuit to make it works without having accurate battery voltage. Do you have an f/1.4 lens on it? I think the EV range is specified if you have lens with f/1.4

Chan you just fixed my meter!! I looked up an EV chart and put the 1.4 lens on. It actually does meter from 3 to 17 like its supposed to. Thanks !!!

 

[GaryFlorida]

Nikkormates were used as backup to Fs and F2, I knew a couple of PJ who shot with Nikkormats as they rugged and were more than a little cheaper than an F. I have a 102 and 201, I like both, easy to use, work well with hearing aid battery. At least with black and white film, exposure seems good. Although there might be a wider range of lens for Nikon, unless you are are a collector Minolta made all lens you will likely use. As inexpensive as the 101 and Nikkormat are I would be buy both, run some film though them and sell the one you don't like as much.

The Minolta SRT Super is on its way. Honestly I plant to keep both Each time I try to break up with a camera I just cant let it go. I have a Black EL2 that Im thinking of selling to fund my SRT Super acquisition but .. I fear sellers remorse.

 

[Chan Tran]

Chan you just fixed my meter!! I looked up an EV chart and put the 1.4 lens on. It actually does meter from 3 to 17 like its supposed to. Thanks !!!

I like the Nikon that instead of trying to give you a meter reading that may be not accurate as it's out of range, the Nikon simply quits.

 

[GaryFlorida]

I like the Nikon that instead of trying to give you a meter reading that may be not accurate as it's out of range, the Nikon simply quits.

yes thats a good point and I never thought that it was intentional until now. another pearl from the genius engineers at Nikon.

 

[Chuck1]

The Minolta SRT Super is on its way. Honestly I plant to keep both Each time I try to break up with a camera I just cant let it go. I have a Black EL2 that Im thinking of selling to fund my SRT Super acquisition but .. I fear sellers remorse.

What would you want for the EL2?

 

[xkaes]

Not mentioned above, the SRT 102 shows the f-stop in the viewfinder, and has other improvements over the SRT 101 -- and is usually a lot less expensive. It also has mirror lock-up, which the Nikkormat may or may not have.

There's also the SRT 202 which adds even more features.

http://www.subclub.org/minman/srt102.htm

 

[GaryFlorida]

thanks xkaes. The Nikkormat FT3 does have mirror lockup but does not have aperture in the viewfinder. I havent noticed the 102 being inexpensive though, I just bought a SRT Super which I understand is the Japanese marketed SRT 102 and I cant say it was cheap. I actually wish I would have been more patient, it arrives Monday. I plan on doing a full comparison with shots taken with each.

Im most interested in the meter weighting of each one. The Minolta has some kind of two sensor metering that calculates the correct exposure based on the contrast? The Nikkormat I believe is center weighted. It will be interesting to see if they agree or disagree on different lighting conditions. That is if the Minolta light meter works, you never know with Ebay. Impulse buy.

Now Im looking for a couple early MC lenses with the valley grips. I think they look cool and the reviews are good. It comes with a 55mm 1.7 MC II I believe based on the grip. The Nikon uses AI lenses natively which is the only kind of Nikkor glass I have. I sold a few non AI lenses and now of course I regret it. Sellers remorse.

 

[dynachrome]

Two more things - later production runs of the 102 (and earlier 101) models do not have mirror lock-up - also, although I sometimes like using a period correct lens with a certain camera, for picture taking, the 50/1.7 is better than the older 55/1.7 MC Rokkor. The 50 came out in 1973 as the MC Rokkor-X. The X was left off in non-U.S. markets. The MC Rokkor-x was replaced in 1977 by the MD Rokkor-X. If I don't need the extra MD tab, I refer the MC Rokkor-X. It still has a metal aperture ring. Both 50s have improved coating compared to the 55 and will give improved contrast.

 

[GaryFlorida]

Two more things - later production runs of the 102 (and earlier 101) models do not have mirror lock-up - also, although I sometimes like using a period correct lens with a certain camera, for picture taking, the 50/1.7 is better than the older 55/1.7 MC Rokkor. The 50 came out in 1973 as the MC Rokkor-X. The X was left off in non-U.S. markets. The MC Rokkor-x was replaced in 1977 by the MD Rokkor-X. If I don't need the extra MD tab, I refer the MC Rokkor-X. It still has a metal aperture ring. Both 50s have improved coating compared to the 55 and will give improved contrast.

Good to know. I am still learning how to tell the difference between MC1 MC2 and MC3 lenses. I think it has to do with the grips. There is a "flat" grip, a "valley" grip and then the rubber diamond texture grip. Still I dont understand what Auto lenses are, pre MC.

 

[GaryFlorida]

Oh yes and then there is the little matter of the mercury battery for the Minolta. I know there are special adapters that convert a 1.5 to 1.35 or whateve it takes. Or just use the WEIN 625 batteries. But I wonder if a resistor can be installed on the inside on the wire that comes from the battery to reduce it from 1.5 to 1.35v? I wouldnt mind a CLA on this new edition, do you know any camera repair sepcialists on Minolta SRT

 

[Chan Tran]

Oh yes and then there is the little matter of the mercury battery for the Minolta. I know there are special adapters that convert a 1.5 to 1.35 or whateve it takes. Or just use the WEIN 625 batteries. But I wonder if a resistor can be installed on the inside on the wire that comes from the battery to reduce it from 1.5 to 1.35v? I wouldnt mind a CLA on this new edition, do you know any camera repair sepcialists on Minolta SRT

A resistor would not work nor even a diode like in some adapters. They drop a fixed amount from the silver oxide battery but silver oxide while relatively more stable than alkaline it's not as stable as mercury and thus the voltage drops during the life of the battery. Modern metering circuits work with a range of voltage and thus doesn't affect their accuracy. A regulator would work but a regulator would drain the battery.

 

[dynachrome]

I can recommend John Titterington for service on the Minolta SRT and X-700 cameras. There is a rokkorfiles website which will explain the differences between the different series of Minolta manual focus lenses. Beginning with the original SRT 101 of 1966 is the first series of MC (meter coupled) Rokkor lenses. With the exception of the standard lenses, the aperture rings were toward the center (from front to back) of the lens. In about 1970 the aperture ring was moved to the back of the lens. These were still called MC Rokkors and had metal focusing rings. In 1973 the MC Rokkor-X lenses came out. These all had rubber covered focusing rings and improved coating. In 1977, to go along with the XD-11 camera, which had both Aperture Priority and Shutter Priority automation, the MD Rokkor-X line came out. The MD lenses have two meter coupling tabs. Your SRT Super will not make any use of the MD (minimum diameter) tab. After the MD Rokkor-X series came the plain MD series. There was what is referred to as the MDIII series at the end. These are kit lenses which have Minolta markings but which were made by a different company, Cosina I think. The MDIII lenses are not very highly regarded. The XD series of cameras was only made for a few years. The cameras were expensive to make and the market was changing. The were succeeded by other X cameras. The XG cameras were pleasant to use when they worked but they were made to a price and were not terribly reliable. The X-700 succeeded these and remained in production from 1981 until almost 2000. The X-700 made use of the MD tab for it's Program mode. Minolta took the best features of the XD cameras and the X-700 and incorporated them into the Maxxum 7000 of 1985, the first mass produced integrated Auto Focusing SLR camera. The rest, as they say, is history. What is remarkable to me is how long the X-700 and the Maxxum 7000 overlapped. In the early AF years, people in other countries could not all afford AF SLRs yet. I have a fleet of X-700 cameras and have used them a lot over the years. For now, when it comes to Minolta, I am in more of an SRT Super phase.

 

[GaryFlorida]

I can recommend John Titterington for service on the Minolta SRT and X-700 cameras. There is a rokkorfiles website which will explain the differences between the different series of Minolta manual focus lenses. Beginning with the original SRT 101 of 1966 is the first series of MC (meter coupled) Rokkor lenses. With the exception of the standard lenses, the aperture rings were toward the center (from front to back) of the lens. In about 1970 the aperture ring was moved to the back of the lens. These were still called MC Rokkors and had metal focusing rings. In 1973 the MC Rokkor-X lenses came out. These all had rubber covered focusing rings and improved coating. In 1977, to go along with the XD-11 camera, which had both Aperture Priority and Shutter Priority automation, the MD Rokkor-X line came out. The MD lenses have two meter coupling tabs. Your SRT Super will not make any use of the MD (minimum diameter) tab. After the MD Rokkor-X series came the plain MD series. There was what is referred to as the MDIII series at the end. These are kit lenses which have Minolta markings but which were made by a different company, Cosina I think. The MDIII lenses are not very highly regarded. The XD series of cameras was only made for a few years. The cameras were expensive to make and the market was changing. The were succeeded by other X cameras. The XG cameras were pleasant to use when they worked but they were made to a price and were not terribly reliable. The X-700 succeeded these and remained in production from 1981 until almost 2000. The X-700 made use of the MD tab for it's Program mode. Minolta took the best features of the XD cameras and the X-700 and incorporated them into the Maxxum 7000 of 1985, the first mass produced integrated Auto Focusing SLR camera. The rest, as they say, is history. What is remarkable to me is how long the X-700 and the Maxxum 7000 overlapped. In the early AF years, people in other countries could not all afford AF SLRs yet. I have a fleet of X-700 cameras and have used them a lot over the years. For now, when it comes to Minolta, I am in more of an SRT Super phase.

well thank you for the insight. what do you know about the AUTO lenses pre MC?

 

[GaryFlorida]

A resistor would not work nor even a diode like in some adapters. They drop a fixed amount from the silver oxide battery but silver oxide while relatively more stable than alkaline it's not as stable as mercury and thus the voltage drops during the life of the battery. Modern metering circuits work with a range of voltage and thus doesn't affect their accuracy. A regulator would work but a regulator would drain the battery.

so whats the solution?