Old computers learning new tricks - Zen and the art of computer upgrades

Don_ih · Feb 24, 2025

{Moderator note: this thread was split off of another thread here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...rest-in-film-photography.212143/#post-2874211}

Sirius Glass said:
In order to use LightRoom and PhotoShop I need to upgrade my circa mid 2012 Mac Pro Tower, I am spending $11,000 on hardware alone

You can upgrade that computer with a $1000 MacBook Air.

You can run Lightroom and Photoshop on 5 or 6 year old windows computer that would cost a couple of hundred dollars - if that.

A MacPro is a production machine, mostly meant for video work. Significant video work.

Computer expense is insignificant for digital photo manipulation. You could do it on a 15-year-old computer with Linux installed.

koraks · Feb 24, 2025

Don_ih said:
You can run Lightroom and Photoshop on 5 or 6 year old windows computer that would cost a couple of hundred dollars - if that.

I'm running GIMP on a desktop that I bought second hand for around €300. I've spent roughly the same amount over the years I've had it (5+) in upgrades - more memory, a bigger SSD and a better graphics card.

Don_ih said:
Computer expense is insignificant for digital photo manipulation.

Very much so.

Sirius Glass · Feb 24, 2025

Don_ih said:
You can upgrade that computer with a $1000 MacBook Air.

You can run Lightroom and Photoshop on 5 or 6 year old windows computer that would cost a couple of hundred dollars - if that.

A MacPro is a production machine, mostly meant for video work. Significant video work.

Computer expense is insignificant for digital photo manipulation. You could do it on a 15-year-old computer with Linux installed.

I want the ability to add PCI boards to the computer. Now one can no longer upgrade the processor or expand the memory in the tower. The use of PCI cards allows me to upgrade other things that one cannot do with a MacBook Air. Also I have a much large screen than the MacBook Air has. Thank you for the suggestion.

Sirius Glass · Feb 24, 2025

koraks said:
I'm running GIMP on a desktop that I bought second hand for around €300. I've spent roughly the same amount over the years I've had it (5+) in upgrades - more memory, a bigger SSD and a better graphics card.

Very much so.

I use and have use GIMP for years, but I still find it a bit more cumbersome than PhotoShop. I do not like that I have to rent PhotoShop and that I have to use Classic to avoid MicroSoft from mining my photographs.

Pieter12 · Feb 24, 2025

Don_ih said:
You can upgrade that computer with a $1000 MacBook Air.

Since he already has a monitor an keyboard, a Mac Mini might do the job at a fraction of the cost.

koraks · Feb 24, 2025

Sirius Glass said:
I use and have use GIMP for years, but I still find it a bit more cumbersome than PhotoShop. I do not like that I have to rent PhotoShop and that I have to use Classic to avoid MicroSoft from mining my photographs.

I understand your argument regarding GIMP. With every version, it's improving, though. The present release candidate has the equivalent of dynamic adjustment layers. It's a major step forward. I'm personally OK with having paid for my Windows license and I gladly pay for Office given what I get for it. All personal decisions of course; to each their own.

Don_ih · Feb 24, 2025

Sirius Glass said:
I want the ability to add PCI boards to the computer. Now one can no longer upgrade the processor or expand the memory in the tower. The use of PCI cards allows me to upgrade other things that one cannot do with a MacBook Air. Also I have a much large screen than the MacBook Air has.

I was using a MacBook Air as an example of a machine that is very much a technical upgrade of a 2012 MacPro - even if it's not actually a practical upgrade. I have a 2012 MacPro that can do any photo manipulation I could want, edit any amount of video I would ever want, has a boat load of hard drive space, runs constantly and never freezes - doesn't run down a battery. It's still a very useful machine.

Pieter12 said:
Since he already has a monitor an keyboard, a Mac Mini might do the job at a fraction of the cost

That would be a good choice, also.

The issue with the 2012 Mac Pro is the fact that it won't come close to running the current MacOS so won't run the current versions of Adobe software. It does, however, run the Affinity software just fine. (which is what I use)

It would also run Windows or Linux just fine. (Probably not Win11)

Sirius Glass · Feb 24, 2025

Good thoughts. I am examining various alternatives that provides the newest OS, access to Abode Products and computing power.

Don_ih · Feb 24, 2025

Sirius Glass said:
Good thoughts. I am examining various alternatives that provides the newest OS, access to Abode Products and computing power.

The current Mac Pro is still around $10000 and I believe is about the only thing they make that can have cards added to it. Most functionality should be able to be added via USB-c ports in a Mac Mini or Macbook. If you want actual desktop hardware, the most affordable option will be to make your own and install Linux - or Windows if you need the Adobe ransomware.

RalphLambrecht · Feb 24, 2025

Don_ih said:
I was using a MacBook Air as an example of a machine that is very much a technical upgrade of a 2012 MacPro - even if it's not actually a practical upgrade. I have a 2012 MacPro that can do any photo manipulation I could want, edit any amount of video I would ever want, has a boat load of hard drive space, runs constantly and never freezes - doesn't run down a battery. It's still a very useful machine.

That would be a good choice, also.

The issue with the 2012 Mac Pro is the fact that it won't come close to running the current MacOS so won't run the current versions of Adobe software. It does, however, run the Affinity software just fine. (which is what I use)

It would also run Windows or Linux just fine. (Probably not Win11)

I switched to a MacBookAir (with M1 processor and an external 32" monitor) five years ago and never regretted it. It runs the entire Adobe suite and then some. Awesome machine for photo editing.

Pieter12 · Feb 24, 2025

RalphLambrecht said:
I switched to a MacBookAir (with M1 processor and an external 32" monitor) five years ago and never regretted it. It runs the entire Adobe suite and then some. Awesome machine for photo editing.

I have used a MacBook Air (as well as other MacBooks) for Photoshop with no issues. However, my personal preference is for a desktop system of sorts (unless I have to be mobile). I dislike a touchpad and prefer a mouse or stylus and tablet for serious work. And I don't like looking down to see the screen, like it at eye level.

Agulliver · Feb 25, 2025

When thinking of computer based image editing....my newest computer is coming up on five years old later this year. And it was a bottom of the line HP laptop. The only issue I have with it is the HDD is slow and I'm mulling over replacing it with a SSD or buying a new laptop. Then I also consider that it's still doing everything I need it to do, so why replace it? It's predecessor, some 12 years old now, is my work laptop and was only relegated because the internal keyboard failed. My tower, on which I can also do image editing and video editing up to 4K still runs Windows 7 and must be 15 years old. It is the machine I use for scanning and video capture from analogue devices. I haven't spent a single penny on upgrading any of them in nearly 5 years, when I bought an external keyboard and mouse for the old laptop and extra RAM for the new one (along with the machine itself....turned out cheaper than buying a higher spec machine with more RAM).

More money to spend on film and related products.

I note with interest the reasons given above by one poster for starting film photography in 2010. Some of those chime with what my young friends tell me today, particularly the aesthetics and tactile experience of using a film camera. and the fact that digital images from phones and digital cameras do tend to look very clean and clinical....except when noise gets in the way and digital noise is not preferred to film grain. We oldies who spent decades searching for the grainless film have been superseded by people who like grain

koraks · Feb 25, 2025

Agulliver said:
The only issue I have with it is the HDD is slow and I'm mulling over replacing it with a SSD or buying a new laptop.

Put it an SSD; the difference is massive. See if you can expand RAM as well, which will also make a big difference. It'll feel like a new(er) machine once you've done those things.

Don_ih · Feb 25, 2025

koraks said:
Put it an SSD; the difference is massive.

I agree - and SSDs are quite a cheap upgrade, if you're not looking for massive storage.

It's always best to use a separate hard drive for storage, anyway. The OS hard drive is the one that gets the greatest amount of use and is most likely to fail.

Agulliver · Feb 25, 2025

The thing is, the OS is on the HDD. So installing a SSD for just the OS is financially viable for sure, but I'd have to do a full reinstall of everything as there's no way to transfer Windows 11 to a different drive....which I fully understand as it's full of references to where stuff is expected to be on the C: drive.

Still mulling it over. It's already expanded with as much RAM as it can take. the only upgrade available is SSD or faster/bigger HDD....both of which would require a reinstall. Mind you, so would a new laptop.

koraks · Feb 25, 2025

Agulliver said:
there's no way to transfer Windows 11 to a different drive.

Yes, there is. You can clone it; there are tools for this.

Don_ih · Feb 25, 2025

Reinstalling windows 11 will clean it up. I just did it, actually, on the computer I'm currently typing on. Just download the latest appropriate version, put on a USB stick (using rufus or similar) - your activation is already stored in the computer bios.

Just make sure to first copy everything that's important to a removable drive (or network storage).

Ben Hutcherson · Feb 25, 2025

Don_ih said:
The issue with the 2012 Mac Pro is the fact that it won't come close to running the current MacOS so won't run the current versions of Adobe software. It does, however, run the Affinity software just fine. (which is what I use)

Actually, spending a couple hundred dollars on a new GPU will let you run the current version of MacOS on a 2012 Mac Pro

OpenCore Legacy Patcher

Experience macOS just like before

dortania.github.io

No it's not an Apple "endorsed" solution, but these old machines do keep trucking along. The dual CPU models in particular aren't at as much of a disadvantage compared to newer offerings, and you can still pile a LOT of RAM in them.

I've relegated mine to a scanning workstation running 10.6.8, but I'd gladly upgrade and use it as my main computer if need be(keeping 10.6.8 compatibility prevents upgrades). I have PCIe storage in it, and when running a newer OS you don't have to track down exotic options like I did back in 2018 when I first built this one out.

The biggest downside to them now is that they are energy hogs(and make great space heaters in the winter...).

Don_ih · Feb 25, 2025

Ben Hutcherson said:
Actually, spending a couple hundred dollars on a new GPU will let you run the current version of MacOS on a 2012 Mac Pro

I already upgraded the graphics card to run the most recent os that can (without using that patcher) run on it. It's still doing what I want it to do, Firefox updates, so I don't need it getting any more recent.

Mine only has a single CPU, although it's the best one I could put in it. I paid ~400 for this machine 6 or 7 years ago - it was definitely worth that. People are still trying to sell them for that price. You can get a trash can for a bit more - but you can't stuff that full of hard drives...

MattKing · Feb 25, 2025

koraks said:
Yes, there is. You can clone it; there are tools for this.

+1
Including tools that accompany some versions of backup software.
I even have a rarely used cloning dock sitting at the back of a shelf - they are relatively cheap.

Sirius Glass · Feb 25, 2025

Ben Hutcherson said:
Actually, spending a couple hundred dollars on a new GPU will let you run the current version of MacOS on a 2012 Mac Pro

Actually not.
If I could, I would.
I can't, so I won't.

The highest Mac OS I can run is not compatible with the MicroSoft suite including LightRoom and PhotoShop.

Don_ih · Feb 25, 2025

Sirius Glass said:
Actually not.
If I could, I would.
I can't, so I won't.

No, it can be done, using the patcher @Ben Hutcherson linked.

Sirius Glass · Feb 25, 2025

Don_ih said:
No, it can be done, using the patcher @Ben Hutcherson linked.

I will look into that, but I believe that I have to reboot every time I want to work on the digital photographs. I have a very large number of exposures and that route, if it works could be awkward.

Agulliver · Feb 25, 2025

MattKing said:
+1
Including tools that accompany some versions of backup software.
I even have a rarely used cloning dock sitting at the back of a shelf - they are relatively cheap.

Cloning my C: drive would be easy but I don't want to do that as I can't justify the expense of a 2TB SSD.

What I am thinking about is keeping the HDD for my audio, video, photos & documents and putting the OS onto a separate SSD (the laptop can have both). And I don't believe it's possible without reinstalling Win 11 because it contains thousands of references to where executable files and all the associated other data for programs/apps are.

koraks · Feb 25, 2025

I've split off this thread from where it began because it started to live a life of its own. In doing so, there's always the question where to make the cut. In this case, I ended up taking a post of @Don_ih because that was the first pure-computer oriented one. Apologies for any inconvenience caused.

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