When I find my Morgan and Morgan, or if somewhere here has the time, I'll look up that Agfa/Adox formula and see if it's composition (ADOX MCC/Adox developer) is listed for making yourself.
That's one of the things that made that collection even more notable to me, over the last forty plus years; the ability to read for yourself old formulas.
I suppose this is the usual amazeballs? But just in case it might mislead someone ...I love it when my deveveloper turns brown. It still works beautfully.
I have noticed that it never goes darker beyond a point. That point is session number three, and it stays the same color for all subsequent sessions, even at session 500.
But just in case it might mislead someone ...
Ah, OK, thanks for pointing that out.I think what was left out of @NB23's post, but as he did mention earlier, is that he apparently does replenish the developer. I can confirm that when doing so, the developer doesn't darken any further at some point and remains stable. Due to replenishment, capacity is also maintained.
Yes, that's the best way to go IMHO: work with stock solution or even a concentrated version of it. I use self mixed D-72 (aka Dektol) as stock solution, with weekly print sessions interrupted by lith or color development sessions. I mix 2 liters at once, and use it over the course of 3-6 months. It rarely fails after that time (have seen it, but only after many, many more months). I mostly have to replenish, when carryover reduced the 2 liters to less than 1 liter.
Background: Concentrated aqueous solutions dissolve a lot less Oxygen than diluted ones or pure water, therefore you get much less oxidation in stock solution. Another factor may be Carbon Dioxide: a stock soluion has much stronger buffering, therefore equal amounts of dissolved Carbon Dioxide will affect pH much less.
The shelf life of Dektol is really hard to beat.
Background: Concentrated aqueous solutions dissolve a lot less Oxygen than diluted ones or pure water, therefore you get much less oxidation in stock solution. Another factor may be Carbon Dioxide: a stock soluion has much stronger buffering, therefore equal amounts of dissolved Carbon Dioxide will affect pH much less.
Yes, and idem E-72, which is a Hydrochinon/Metol free version of it.
The AgfaMCC formula was never published, also be aware that a high percentage of the formulae in the Morgan & Morgan publications are incorrect. The Agfa Neuto WA Warmtone developer is very similar to Ilford ID-78. MCC is probably similar to ID-62.
Ian
Really? I'm interested because although I have a decent supply of HQ left and I'm also not too worried about toxicity and environmental load, I'm in principle in favor of replacing it with something more benign and even easier to obtain if possible. But given the problem of the Fenton reaction I'd be surprised to hear that E72 is as stable as Dektol. How long have you kept the concentrate and working stock solutions, and under which conditions?
Thanks.
I had no heard of the Morgan and Morgan having bad data before today.
........
Eli
Really? I'm interested because although I have a decent supply of HQ left and I'm also not too worried about toxicity and environmental load, I'm in principle in favor of replacing it with something more benign and even easier to obtain if possible. But given the problem of the Fenton reaction I'd be surprised to hear that E72 is as stable as Dektol. How long have you kept the concentrate and working stock solutions, and under which conditions?
Here's the formula for the paper developer, E-72:
E-72 by Chris Patton
Dekol-type developer substituting ascorbic acid for hydroquinone and Phenidone for metol.
Water (125°F/52°C) ......... 750 mlPhenidone ........................ 0.3 gSodium sulfite (anhy) ....... 45 gAscorbic Acid ................... 19 gSodium carbonate (mono) ..... 90 g (77 g Sodium carbonate anhy)Potassium bromide ........... 1.9 gWater to make ................... 1000 ml
USING THE DEVELOPER: Dilute between 1:1 and 1:4, with 1:3 for normal contrast.
For 1+3, 2 minutes works well.
NOTE: 3.0 g of metol may be substituted for the Phenidone.
Formula #81, The Darkroom Cookbook, 2nd Edition, Stephen G. Anchell, p.192
Note the lack of a sequestering agent, leaving it defenseless against the evil Mr. Fenton.
Note the lack of a sequestering agent, leaving it defenseless against the evil Mr. Fenton.
Correct if I am wrong, but isn't a sequestering agent is needed to compensate for hard- and metals containing tab water?
Then, is it indicated to use demineralised water?
PS: I understand that your referring to "Mr. Fenton" is tongue-in-cheek, but can you please elaborate?
Side-note: In your previous post, you mentioned "Kalium". I've wondered what language used a K-word for Potassium. Now I know. Thank you.
The Fenton reaction is a catalytic reaction of iron ions with ascorbate. It will cause your developer to die, even if you used distilled water, because the iron comes from impurities in the chemicals used in the developer. Because it's catalytic, even a small amount of iron will eventually destroy all ascorbate. For some lucky people, the stock solution will last a long time, and for others, it might only last a few days. Kodak solved this problem by adding the sequestering agent DTPA to its XTOL developer. According to their patent, they added 1 gram of DTPA per litre of working solution.
With no DTPA, I would recommend mixing E-72 immediately before use, and discarding it after the session.
Pat Gainer solved this problem by dissolving all chemicals in TEA in his PC-TEA developer. With no water, there can be no Fenton reaction in his concentrate.
perhaps it is due to me using reagentia grade products from Sigma-Aldrich?
And yes, Pat Gainer is a smart man, I learned a lot by reeding his writings!
Thanks.
I had no heard of the Morgan and Morgan having bad data before today.
Is there a thread listing the mistakes I could turn to?
The problem was so bad, and had a longer lasting effect, because so many US published books copied the formulae from.
It was a mixture of typos, incorrect calculations of comparative weights of compounds like Sulphites and Carbonates which can be found as anhydrous or crystalline, in the case of Sodium Carbonate monohydrate form as well.
I remember buying an Amphoto book of formulae in the mid 1970s and being shocked at the mistakes, these carried through various other publications to the Darkroom Cookbook 2nd edition. I contacted Steve Anchell pointing out some errors, and he asked me to cross-check every formulae which I did with primary sources which I cited, that's manufacturer's own published data, often multiple publications from Ilford, Agfa Ansco, Orwo (Agfa), Gevaert, Kodak, Dupont/Defender, etc.
What was interesting was virtually every error was first published in the Morgan & Morgan Photo Lab Index, and people had been assuming it was the definite guide. The errors are in the realm of 30%.
I guess the two formulae that initially caught my eye was a formulae that was obviously a PQ version of D76/ID-11 that was claimed to be Microphen, but I knew that the published version of Microphen was ID-68a bit different, the formula the Lab Index listed was actually for Autophen. The other was ID-78 which Ilford had sold as a Warm tone developer in powder form, every US publication listed 0.4g (per litre) Potassium Bromide I knew the correct weight was 4.5g, essentially it's the warm tone version of ID-62 with no Benzotriazole and increased Bromide.
So after that I was quite sceptical and began finding more errors. Finally, I picked up some Lab Index supplements years later and realised that was where the errors had come from originally, then I obtained a full copy. Ir wasn't sold here in the UK.
Ian
BTW: albada, does your forumname refers to the viewfinder type?
Ethol LPD. I also keep working solution and continue to reuse.
Yes! In the 14 years that I've participated in this forum, you are the first to point out the meaning of my name.
BTW, @relistan is putting developers in PG with his new PC-512 developer (here's the link to that thread).
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