provia 100 versus velvia 100

mhanc · Aug 18, 2017

i have not shot much fujichrome [a total of 3 rolls of velvia 100 & 50] and was wondering what are the qualitative differences between provia 100 and velvia 100 that those with more experience here would point out?

my inclination is toward provia 100... fine grain, saturated but not overdone colors. also, seems most similar to e100vs which is/was my favorite.

format is 35mm and will be shot on a hiking trip with altitudes up to 12,500 ft [ 3,700 m ] or so. thanks!!

iandvaag · Aug 18, 2017

I'm not terribly experienced, but I have shot about 100 rolls of Velvia 100 and 15 rolls of Provia (all in medium format). As you might guess by these numbers, I prefer Velvia. For me, it is all about the colours. I personally do not find Velvia to have oversaturated colours, it just seems right. I went to the fair last weekend to take long exposures of the colourful rides, and I would have been pretty disapointed if I only had Provia in my camera bag.

Provia does have the advantage of having slightly less contrast, so if you have slightly overexposed highlights in the scene, it will look better than Velvia.

I shoot slides for stereoscopic (3d) images to be viewed in a backlit handheld viewer. For this purpose, the grain/resolution of the films are equivalent -- really impressive. I can just barely see the grain in uniform areas that are underexposed.

I think either are really good choices. Wishing you photographic success on your trip!

trendland · Aug 18, 2017

mhanc said:
i have not shot much fujichrome [a total of 3 rolls of velvia 100 & 50] and was wondering what are the qualitative differences between provia 100 and velvia 100 that those with more experience here would point out?

my inclination is toward provia 100... fine grain, saturated but not overdone colors. also, seems most similar to e100vs which is/was my favorite.

format is 35mm and will be shot on a hiking trip with altitudes up to 12,500 ft [ 3,700 m ] or so. thanks!!

There is just a simple answer to you question : Provia is the cheaper film.
It was allmost the cheapest in the past.
I remember very well Provia 220 to amazing prices. $ 24,95 5x Provia100 220!!! To the time you could get Astia100
120 at about $ 18,95 (5x).
The Provia 100 120 was at $ 16,95 (regular price).
And Kodak Ektachrome 100G 120 was at $ 22,95 but you had to pay $ 38,95 to E100G 220 (5x).
All of this stated was about 10 years behind.
Looking at todays Fuji prices it is left over
from this period that Provia is a little less from it's price.....
Thats the difference!
AND Fuji Velvia is more saturated.Therefore it is often used to lenscapes many photographers loved this spezial colors.This love was obviously so much that Fuji was forced to relaunch Velvia50 just one year after discontinued this film.
First Fuji stated the are unable to get the
chemistry to produce Velvia50 therefore they discontinue the film.
After massive protests they suddenly found new chemistry to relaunch Velvia50. I never believed this nonsence.
They planned to reduce their portfolio due to economic reasons because 2006 there have been Velvia50 AND two types
Velvia100 - So Fuji stated one type Velvia100 has the same smalest grain compared to Velvia50.Nonsence too - if you asked me.
But Velvia is not the option to shoot portrait if you want to have neutral colors.

with regards

trendland · Aug 18, 2017

mhanc said:
i have not shot much fujichrome [a total of 3 rolls of velvia 100 & 50] and was wondering what are the qualitative differences between provia 100 and velvia 100 that those with more experience here would point out?

my inclination is toward provia 100... fine grain, saturated but not overdone colors. also, seems most similar to e100vs which is/was my favorite.

format is 35mm and will be shot on a hiking trip with altitudes up to 12,500 ft [ 3,700 m ] or so. thanks!!

Ahhh you mentioned E100VS - sorry I did not read it first.
Coming back to color saturation.
I would like to say the E100VS is more saturated in comparison to Provia100.
But this depends a little to some circumstances.
They are two different films at first.
But your E100VS is discontinued.If you are happy to store some of this emulsion it is depending to storage conditions.
This film lost its saturation if it is overstored.
I have bought some extreme cheap E100VS at ebay. But they are expired 2005.
No problem at all to me because they was less that $ 1,- AND I have also some
good films of this type.
May be Velvia100 is more in the near of your Kodak favourite AND Velvia50 is a little more saturated in theory.
NOTICE : IN PRACTICE EVERYTHING IS MOST CONDITIONAL FROM E.I.

with regards

lantau · Aug 18, 2017

iandvaag said:
For me, it is all about the colours. I personally do not find Velvia to have oversaturated colours, it just seems right. I went to the fair last weekend to take long exposures of the colourful rides, and I would have been pretty disapointed if I only had Provia in my camera bag.

Finally someone who thinks the same as I. Velvia is just right, sometimes even subtle! There is no colour explosion in the shade. And a landscape in strong sunlight is rendered the way it should be.

Stephen Schoof · Aug 18, 2017

I have used all three films for years and greatly prefer Velvia 50, especially for outdoor scenery and activities. Velvia 100 sounds better on paper, but I don't like it's higher contrast and some color renditions (brown bark can go reddish, etc) . In most of my side by side comparisons, Velvia 50 wins, even when I've pushed it a stop to 100. Now I mainly limit Velvia 100 to night photography or times when I want a saturated 200 speed push.

Provia 100F is a great film but obviously less saturated than either Velvia. I like it for human events and non-nature subjects, and it pushes to 200 nicely. If you want less saturated colors, it's definitely preferable to Velvia 100.

Minoltafan2904 · Aug 18, 2017

Velvia can in some situations produce colors that are so saturated and vivid that they are almost cartoonish, Provia is more "accurate" in terms of realistic colour rendition.

mhanc · Aug 19, 2017

thanks for the information! i still have a decent stash of e100vs in 120 format which i will be using on the trip. so, it sounds like provia might be the best option here in 35mm as it will hopefully be the closest color palette.

trendland · Aug 19, 2017

Minoltafan2904 said:
Velvia can in some situations produce colors that are so saturated and vivid that they are almost cartoonish, Provia is more "accurate" in terms of realistic colour rendition.

Righty right - Minoltafan "Provia has a more neutrally color look " as you mentioned.
But Velvia50 specially Velvia100 isn't so very much saturated as many expect.
Only from my point of view.
I would not like to say Velvia is cartoonish from its color look but this may strongly depend to some motives.
Let's have a look to Ken Rockwell - he seams to be a real expert to Fuji E6 films.
A typical motive where you could have a
cartoonish look in addition to special E.I.
is to get with each kind of fuji E6 like here:

Source : Ken Rockwell.com

Now let's have a look to a most saturated E6 film ever made - Fuji Fortia 50 !

I remember Ratty Mouse here on Apug made some experience with this emulsion. I would have sold my soul for this film just to try out, but I was only a little to late. So here is an example of the
saturated look from this "limeted edition Fuji Velvia" with Extra Saturation :

Notice : The color look here is digital emulated as "Fuji Fortia 50".....

with regards

thuggins · Aug 25, 2017

I recently got some Velvia 50 and 100 to try again, after abandoning it many years ago when my go-to film was VS. After the first rolls, I immediately remembered why.

Velvia 100 is awful stuff. Even on perfectly exposed shots, dark objects in full sun (like trees) are pretty much black and featureless. Any shadows are pure black with zero detail. 50 is a little better for shadows, but the colors are oversaturated and dark.

Provia is a better film all around. It definitely has a cold, blue cast to it but the colors are more lively and natural than either of the Velvias. Its shadow detail is very good, certainly on par with Ektachrome. I've gotten over ten stops range with Provia without it going fully blown or fully black.

Poisson Du Jour · Aug 25, 2017

Minoltafan2904 said:
Velvia can in some situations produce colors that are so saturated and vivid that they are almost cartoonish, Provia is more "accurate" in terms of realistic colour rendition.

There are different purposes for Velvia as opposed to Provia and vice versa. If you expose Velvia in those ghastly lighting conditions that Rockwell did, yes, that holds true — you've got a dog's breakfast of extreme colour saturation disjointed shadows (which Velvia is incapable of detailing in bright light). Those two examples are prime exhibits as to how not to expose Velvia. As usual, he has no idea what he is doing yet trots out these examples seemingly as gospel.

Provia is tame compared to Velvia, but can be either warmed up (light warming filter) or left in its natural cool (slight blue) state. It is the film best designed for portraiture, not Velvia.

As for Velvia 100. That is an atrocious emulsion, no better really than the gaudy, Vaudevillian 100F. It's about time photographers learnt to expose Velvia 100 correctly to ease off on the screaming red and blue channels, and that means shooting in diffuse light. Velvia 100 will then just settle down and look slightly bolder than RVP50. Also, V100 is also known to have a low clipping point for whites so detail will be easily lost in highlights as opposed to the progressiveness shown by RVP50.

trendland · Aug 26, 2017

Poisson Du Jour said:
There are different purposes for Velvia as opposed to Provia and vice versa. If you expose Velvia in those ghastly lighting conditions that Rockwell did, yes, that holds true — you've got a dog's breakfast of extreme colour saturation disjointed shadows (which Velvia is incapable of detailing in bright light). Those two examples are prime exhibits as to how not to expose Velvia. As usual, he has no idea what he is doing yet trots out these examples seemingly as gospel.

Provia is tame compared to Velvia, but can be either warmed up (light warming filter) or left in its natural cool (slight blue) state. It is the film best designed for portraiture, not Velvia.

As for Velvia 100. That is an atrocious emulsion, no better really than the gaudy, Vaudevillian 100F. It's about time photographers learnt to expose Velvia 100 correctly to ease off on the screaming red and blue channels, and that means shooting in diffuse light. Velvia 100 will then just settle down and look slightly bolder than RVP50. Also, V100 is also known to have a low clipping point for whites so detail will be easily lost in highlights as opposed to the progressiveness shown by RVP50.

Interisting additional information ! It may show that you are well experienced with Velvia and Provia emullsions.
I havn't shot so much Velvias it was more
a particular use of them.
But I shot a lot of Astia 100F ....yeah - this
film isn't "oversaturated" in any way .
It has more a very neutral color lock.Best
to shot architecture and technical (industrieal) motives - just from my point
of view.
with regards

Poisson Du Jour · Aug 26, 2017

trendland said:
Interisting additional information ! It may show that you are well experienced with Velvia and Provia emullsions.
I havn't shot so much Velvias it was more
a particular use of them.
But I shot a lot of Astia 100F ....yeah - this
film isn't "oversaturated" in any way .
It has more a very neutral color lock.Best
to shot architecture and technical (industrieal) motives - just from my point
of view.
with regards

ASTIA 100 was the film I used on a long trip around the South Pacific in the early 1990s. The slides of the emerald green hills and blue seas of Norfolk Island and the more northerly distant Lord Howe Island remind me of the better places to be than the concrete jungle, and also what it was like before Velvia usurped the leading lights of films! One need not have been too concerned with precision exposure of Kodachrome (200), and thus I learnt quickly — what was fine for Kodachrome was not going to always sit well with Velvia (and to a lesser extent, Provia)!

I had got a bit jaded with Kodachrome 200 around c. 1987-1988 and often dabbled in E6, along with earlier Ektachrome. Two rolls of Velvia were given to me I think in 1993 to "try out", and as it is often said, "the rest is history!" I think I went quite off my carrot: instead of food in the cupboard, there was crumpled corn flakes, stale bread and vegemite competing for space with boxes and boxes and still more boxes of Velvia!!

Minoltafan2904 · Aug 27, 2017

Damn shame Velvia 50 and Provia100F are ridiculously expensive in Europe, P100F is between 13-15 Euros/ roll of 35mm, and Vevia 50 i've seen for up to 20 Euros / roll of 35mm.

Poisson Du Jour · Aug 27, 2017

Where are you getting your Euro pricing from? It is commonly available here is Australia at $131.99 for 10 rolls ($13.20 each), which converts to about €8.79 each. Something isn't right.

macfred · Aug 27, 2017

Velvia 50: 8,48 EURO(120) / 16,06 EURO(135) - Provia 100: 7,79 EURO(120) / 12,89 EURO(135) Provia in Germany (fotoimpex). Pro Pack with 5 rolls might be marginally cheaper.

--
I use Provia in 120 and AGFA Photo CT100 in 135 - I'm still waiting for Ektachrome to come ...

lantau · Aug 27, 2017

Be aware that film prices on Amazon and Ebay are inflated, when compared to other online retailers. Especially the analog only retailers.

Minoltafan2904 · Aug 27, 2017

Poisson Du Jour said:
Where are you getting your Euro pricing from? It is commonly available here is Australia at $131.99 for 10 rolls ($13.20 each), which converts to about €8.79 each. Something isn't right.

I've looked on Lomo's shop, Ebay, Amazon, and local film stockists and Provia 100F is always over 13 Euros / roll (35mm ) this is single rolls, not the 5 or 10 roll packs.

I imagine in Australia Fuji is probably cheaper as it's much closer to Japan, if you go to Japan you would probably notice that Kodak is quite pricey there.

lantau · Aug 27, 2017

Minoltafan2904 said:
I imagine in Australia Fuji is probably cheaper as it's much closer to Japan, if you go to Japan you would probably notice that Kodak is quite pricey there.

As long as a few hundred or a few thousand of whichever item fit into one container, transport costs don't matter pretty much. I have seen some Australians here mention the cost of film and slide film in Aussieland and it was very high. Ilford films cost more in the UK than in Germany. When I was in HK the last time a year ago all films except for Fujichromes and Fuji Acros were more expensive. Including their professional colour negative films.

IMHO Lomo is an expensive shop, unless you find a deal. Only once for a short while Lomo had Velvia 100 in 135/36 on Amazon.de for €10. And you couldn't find it with a search, only manually in their own shop section. By the look of the packaging it was a direct import from Asia. I paid roughly the same price in Hong Kong. First I bought one with my Ilford Camera Obscuara which was a bit cheaper from them as well. Once confirmed that it is real and fresh I bought ten more with free shipping. But most of the time it is not even worth looking for prices on Amazon or Lomo. On Ebay it is only very occasionally that some good soul is offering quality stuff at a good price. I bought Provia 400x on two occasions and was happy with the deal.

Minoltafan2904 · Aug 27, 2017

I could in theory get Velvia 100 from a film stockist here in Spain, for less than 10 Euros, but it seems that Provia 100F is much better, and considering my local lab charges about 20-25 Euros for E-6 Developing + Mounted slides + Scans, and i have to wait 2 weeks until i get the results since they send it out i think to Barcelona, if i'm going to shoot E-6 film i want to shoot a good one.

E-6 films are expensive nowadays though and that is the hard reality, as i said earlier, i can only hope that the new Ektachrome is less than 15 Euros / roll

Prest_400 · Aug 27, 2017

Note to self, to buy some Provia in 120. E6 in 120 is a bit expensive but, compared to C41, the difference in price is much more pronounced in 35mm. If I shot more E6, specially in 35mm, I woud go for Precisa.
Purchase wise, I either go for Germany or UK retailers.

Minoltafan2904 said:
I could in theory get Velvia 100 from a film stockist here in Spain, for less than 10 Euros, but it seems that Provia 100F is much better, and considering my local lab charges about 20-25 Euros for E-6 Developing + Mounted slides + Scans, and i have to wait 2 weeks until i get the results since they send it out i think to Barcelona, if i'm going to shoot E-6 film i want to shoot a good one.

E-6 films are expensive nowadays though and that is the hard reality, as i said earlier, i can only hope that the new Ektachrome is less than 15 Euros / roll

E6 in Barcelona is a situation I don't quite know how it is going, up until 2015 or maybe 16 there was a Lab in the city doing E6 and they discontinued it. I passed by the Lomography store in the city, wanting to grab some of their CN (their film is well priced), but they didn't have it. Now, upon talking they told me that there was a possibility that the lab they sent E6 to, who discontinued the service, may begin to develop E6 again. I'll have to ask.

2 weeks turnaround could be Madrid (Interphoto lab) or Even EU wide.

Poisson Du Jour · Aug 27, 2017

Minoltafan2904 said:
I've looked on Lomo's shop, Ebay, Amazon, and local film stockists and Provia 100F is always over 13 Euros / roll (35mm ) this is single rolls, not the 5 or 10 roll packs.

I imagine in Australia Fuji is probably cheaper as it's much closer to Japan, if you go to Japan you would probably notice that Kodak is quite pricey there.

Velvia and Provia are no longer being stocked by two pro-level dealers here in Melbourne. It is available abundantly on eBay and for much cheaper (including from Thailand), from a long-time local seller who buys up huge quantities of it from the distributor, thus getting rid of overheads. The reason for retail-level (street) dealers not stocking is, according to them, "demand for those films is not there". What!? Sweethearts, that's bullshit. A stronger, more obvious reason is that by the time they have put in their profit margin and mark-up and whatnot, they have made the film far too expensive for all but die-hard users of it, e.g. more than AUD $23.00 a roll of Provia 100F. Historically though, Provia 100F has always been the most expensive E6 emulsion here. Oddly, those same labs provide between 24 hour and 2 day turnaround of E6 jobbing (other E6 films are stocked, such as those by Rollei, Agfa).

Poisson Du Jour · Aug 27, 2017

lantau said:
As long as a few hundred or a few thousand of whichever item fit into one container, transport costs don't matter pretty much. I have seen some Australians here mention the cost of film and slide film in Aussieland

Erm, well...
120 roll E6 process only $10.90 ($8.80 with a VIP Member Card issued by the dealer, roller transport). Next dealer, 120 roll E6 process only is twice that [ Dip 'n Dunk ]
35mm E6 process only $12.90 ($10.60 with a VIP Member Card issued by the dealer). Next dealer, 35mm roll E6 process only is a few cents shy of $17.00 (!).

So yes, depending where you take it, E6 jobbing can be either cheaper than a coffee and a tasty biskit, or the price of a decent sit-down meal in Hipsterville!! I follow the breadcrumb trail by mountain bike and get my fix of coffee and biskit and a roll of E6 processed. Neato!

lantau · Aug 28, 2017

Poisson Du Jour said:
Erm, well...
120 roll E6 process only $10.90 ($8.80 with a VIP Member Card issued by the dealer, roller transport). Next dealer, 120 roll E6 process only is twice that [ Dip 'n Dunk ]
35mm E6 process only $12.90 ($10.60 with a VIP Member Card issued by the dealer). Next dealer, 35mm roll E6 process only is a few cents shy of $17.00 (!).

So yes, depending where you take it, E6 jobbing can be either cheaper than a coffee and a tasty biskit, or the price of a decent sit-down meal in Hipsterville!! I follow the breadcrumb trail by mountain bike and get my fix of coffee and biskit and a roll of E6 processed. Neato!

Actually I was talking about the cost of film,not processing. Did the situation improve there?

If those are A$ then $8.80 is about what I pay for E6 135 at the best lab. Probably because of their high volume they are cheaper than some lesser labs.

Drugstore prices seem to be very low, but I don't want to risk it.

Poisson Du Jour · Aug 28, 2017

lantau said:
Actually I was talking about the cost of film,not processing. Did the situation improve there?

No, it did not improve and it is most unlikely to do so any time. The retailers are expensive for any film, never mind about the comparatively cheap cost of processing.
I will start to scout around online for Ilford films; I cannot find the receipt at the moment for 4 [120] Pan F+ 50 I bought last week but it did seem expensive at the time ($14/roll?)*.
In Tokyo last year there was a lot of Fuji E6 film was packaged in Japanese-text boxes; I had no idea what I was looking for other than ISOs (100, 200 and 400X). Nothing was bought on impulse that I might regret later. My cash-laden niece, though, spent a fortune on traditional Japanese prints.

Drugstore processing!? My God, I wouldn't do that. The only "convenience" processing I took advantage of was the Kodak Kiosks that once upon a time (a long time ago!!) were plentiful: in arcades, down laneways, dotted around suburbia. Dry Cleaners also once offered processing services. As did newsagents.

__________________ *** LATE EDIT ***________________
* Found receipt; each roll was $12.90 x4 = $51.60 less 8% $47.50

provia 100 versus velvia 100

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