red darkroomlight warning

Paul Howell · Sep 14, 2019

Not sure what the issue is, why do you need see to load film in a tank, or that matter to process sheet film in trays? The use of a green filter along with restainer is to develop by inspection, and only for a few seconds every minute. Panchromatic film, load in total darkness. What am I missing?

removed account4 · Sep 14, 2019

Here's some info on developing by inspection with a dark green filter...
http://michaelandpaula.com/mp/devinsp.html
I have one and use it once in a while, you can't have it way off far away from where you are going to use it, the light
has to be fairly close by so you can see it ... sorry to read you fogged the film Ralph, i've heard of some people developing by inspection with a regular safelight but
I always imagined these people were internet trixters or fakes from a "bot farm" peppering photography forums with bogus info...
have fun!
j

DREW WILEY · Sep 14, 2019

The late Michael Smith could be pretty hard-nosed that his way of film dev by inspection was the RIGHT way. It evidently worked for him because his personal work was excellent; but I doubt inspection dev actually had anything to do with it. He was just set in his ways, like his insistence on getting ahold of every last sheet of Super-XX on the planet instead of switching to TMY. He did experiment with certain alternate films, but never really adapted. I've done sheet film in total darkness in trays for decades now with total predictability.

RalphLambrecht · Sep 14, 2019

Bob Carnie said:
Ok Ralph I am selling my book of yours after reading this.

those who can do,the others write about it; sorry to burst your bubble but, I'm not flawless.

Bob Carnie · Sep 15, 2019

I thought that saying was about teachers....

Agulliver · Sep 15, 2019

DREW WILEY said:
Normal human vision is more sensitive to green light than to red.

Every human is different though. I know (as I've tested it) that I am far more sensitive to red than the average human and can see a little near IR. I'm less sensitive to blue than the average human. Quite literally if I am behind a car with it's brake lights on I can be totally dazzled. Those third central brake lights that started proliferating in the late 80s are utterly horrible as far as I am concerned and a big part of the reason that I do not drive.

Bu back to the dark room....yes, panchromatic films cannot be loaded or developed under a red safe light. B&W papers can be, and that works well for me with my vision. I tried a green safe light once for bromide paper I think....and couldn't see a ruddy thing.

Sirius Glass · Sep 15, 2019

RalphLambrecht said:
those who can do,the others write about it; sorry to burst your bubble but, I'm not flawless.

Bob Carnie said:
I thought that saying was about teachers....

Those that can, do.
Those that can't, teach.
Those that can't teach, teach others to teach.

Ian Grant · Sep 15, 2019

I remember first using Ilford Ortho film back in the mid 1970's at the time it had a few different SO-xxxx names, essentially quite like FP4 but Orthochromatic, I found it needed total darkness despite a dark red safe light recommendation. Maybe just a slight difference in the safe-light filter, distance wasn't an issue.

There are filters that are almost OK for modern films but it's not worth the risk.

Ian

Willyekerslike · Sep 15, 2019

I thiught it was:

Those that can, do
Those that can not, write about it
And
Those that can not do either, teach it

.

Peter Schrager · Sep 15, 2019

I develop by inspection and find that I wouldn't want to do any other way. Dark green safelight and a footswitch

MattKing · Sep 15, 2019

I've often wondered whether one could combine an intervalometer and a dark green safelight to good effect.
Something like a tiny bit of light every three seconds or so - for a portion of the developing time only.

Sirius Glass · Sep 15, 2019

Sounds like we need self developing film. Ever heard of such a thing?

foc · Sep 15, 2019

With modern panchromatic film, why would you want to develop by inspection? Or am I missing something.

Surely the time and temperature method is better suited.

removed account4 · Sep 15, 2019

i heard it waz those who can, do, those who can't, teach and those who can't teach teach gym

Peter Schrager · Sep 15, 2019

foc said:
With modern panchromatic film, why would you want to develop by inspection? Or am I missing something.

Surely the time and temperature method is better suited.

For roll film no problem..for sheet film I get it exactly where it needs to be...I just set the temp as close as possible to where I want it and go for it..

Agulliver · Sep 16, 2019

More than one of my university professors said...

Those that can, do
Those that can't, teach.
Those that can't teach, lecture.

Ian Grant · Sep 16, 2019

foc said:
With modern panchromatic film, why would you want to develop by inspection? Or am I missing something.

Surely the time and temperature method is better suited.

Peter Schrager said:
For roll film no problem..for sheet film I get it exactly where it needs to be...I just set the temp as close as possible to where I want it and go for it..

I think it depends on the negative sizes and how you're developing them. I process 5x4 (& 9x12) sheet films in Jobo 2000 tanks these are pre-rotary so there's little difference compared to 1120 films in the same tank (sometimes together0 or in a Paterson tank with both makes of tanks time and temperature are easily controlled.

Assuming you're dish (tray) processing your sheet films then there are greater difficulties controlling temperature and that get's worse if times are longer. You're dependent on darkroom temperature and drift. That reminds me of the early Paterson hand turned rotary colour print drums which came with a calculator chart you had the starting colour developer temperature and the ambient temperature and it gave you the needed correction.

So when dish developing sheet film development by inspection is an option, but inspection means a short 1-2 second glimpse under the safelight. Perhaps you'd elaborate more on your technique Peter.

Some advocate a Wratten #3/Ilford 907 dark green filter, Kodak say Wratten # is for "Some panchromatic materials" while Ilford suggest the 907 for "Very slow panchromatic materials.".

Kodak sugest the Wratten #10 filter - Very Dark Amber for "Colour negative papers, materials, panchromatic black-and-white papers", tThe Ilford equivalent is a 908 Very Dark Green and their data sheets state "All panchromatic materials, colour papers and ILFOCHROME. Although designed for the maximum possible efficiency, this safelight must be used with extreme care. Fast panchromatic materials must not be exposed to direct light from this filter for any appreciable length of time."

I already use a Wratten #10 or #10H when colour printing so that would be my choice for developing by inspection, however I switched from tray processing 7x5 and 10x8 to a Paterson Orbital and have better temperature control.

Ian

Ian

DREW WILEY · Sep 16, 2019

I'm equipped to tray develop even nitpicky sets of 8X10 tricolor separations using pan film with perfect uniformity and precise density. If necessary, I have a thermoregulator that keeps the tray temp inside of 1/10th deg F. That's ridiculous overkill for routine black and white work, so a basic unregulated water bath is ample, assisted by a Zone VI compensating dev timer. I live in a temperate costal climate and my sink room has R23 insulation in the walls, so even during long film dev times, the temp in the surrounding water jacket hardly drifts at all. ANY safelight use would ruin the kinds of things I frequently do with film. As far as color papers go, I tried those various amber filters in my Kodak lights, and found them useless. My problem was loading heavy big rolls of 40 inch wide Fujiflex paper onto the roller mounts below my cutting table. Momentary use of a tiny little Jobo Minilux light hanging around my neck solved that issue. After that, I have guide and stops built into the table that allow me to precisely square and cut the roll down into various sheet sizes in total darkness. I have quite a bit of drum processing equipment on hand for color print processing, but prefer tray processing for all black and white applications except small roll film, where I use Jobo hand-inversion tanks.

mshchem · Sep 16, 2019

Peter Schrager said:
I develop by inspection and find that I wouldn't want to do any other way. Dark green safelight and a footswitch

This is the way Kodak has recommended for decades. One point is wait until nearing the predicted end of development, that way if you do expose it a bit it won't have time to develop.
I'm a time temperature guy.

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