Ricoh 21mm LTM with Voigtlander Bessa R4M/R4A?

Fragomeni · Jul 23, 2022

Wondering if anyone has experience with this combination and can confirm that it works without issue?

My favorite 21 is the Leitz Super Angulon f3.4 but my understanding is that the lens cannot be used on a Bessa body because the rear element will interfere with the shutter mechanism in the camera. I don’t love using an external finder on my M body so that’s where I started thinking about one of the Bessa bodies with 21mm frame lines. I’m a fan of the Ricoh 21 so am now wondering if this lens will work on an R4M or R4A without the issues presented with the Super Angulon.

If you know about the combination please let me know. Thanks very much.

ic-racer · Jul 24, 2022

This combination works perfectly.

Nitroplait · Jul 24, 2022

And that lens is just as good as the Angulon, possibly better - but much cheaper.

ic-racer said:
This combination works perfectly.
View attachment 311028

Fragomeni · Jul 24, 2022

I know the Color-Skopar works with the camera. I’m asking specifically about compatibility with the Ricoh GR 21mm f2.8. I’ve never been particularly moved by the Color Skopar and having shot both, I’d disagree that it’s comparable to the Super-Angulon. Totally different lenses with totally different character. Not interested in turning this thread into a debate on that though. Just looking for the specifics on whether or not the Ricoh lens works on the camera without issue.

Can anyone speak specifically to the compatibility of the Ricoh GR 21mm f3.5 (LTM) lens on the R4M or R4A via M adapter? Does the meter work? Does the lens interfere with the shutter? Etc.

ic-racer · Jul 24, 2022

I may have misinterpreted you first post. I thought you were seeking a lens that won't interfere with the shutter of the Bessa.
I'm not familiar with the Ricoh 21/3.5 so I looked it up and it is not what I thought. I thought it was the 21/3.8 you were trying to fit on the Bessa.

Fragomeni · Jul 24, 2022

ic-racer said:
I may have misinterpreted you first post. I thought you were seeking a lens that won't interfere with the shutter of the Bessa.
I'm not familiar with the Ricoh 21/3.5 so I looked it up and it is not what I thought. I thought it was the 21/3.8 you were trying to fit on the Bessa.

View attachment 311041 View attachment 311042

Yea, I’m talking about the Ricoh GR21 lens. Same lens that is on the point and shoot Ricoh GR21, made in small numbers in Leica mount. Incredible lens with very unique rendering. I like it a lot (although I still love the Super Angulon above all other 21’s).

I dug in a little deeper and found one reference on Flickr of someone who used the Ricoh on an R4M so I think it works so I may try it it. I may also give the Color Skopar another shot. It is a good lens no doubt but I’ve never been enamored with its rendering like the others although it’s neutrality could certainly be seen as a positive.

ic-racer · Jul 24, 2022

Looks like a fantastic lens that needs an equally fantastic camera.
Finding a R4M might be challenging. Do you have a line on one?

Fragomeni · Jul 24, 2022

ic-racer said:
Looks like a fantastic lens that needs an equally fantastic camera.
Finding a R4M might be challenging. Do you have a line on one?

They’ve come up here now and then (my preference) and are readily available on eBay (just a matter of waiting for a decent price).

Ko.Fe. · Jul 26, 2022

Do you have R4M(A)? If not, be aware what its VF is easily blocked with larger lenses. Hood is going to ruin the view
Also, those old and not so old UWA LTM lenses, even if they fit, are not always accurate on exposures via camera like Bessa R series primitive metering.
And any Bessa R series camera is finicky to meter, it acts more like spot meter and sometimes gets kind of stuck.
Also all M mount series R cameras are higher than usual RF camera (except FED-5 ), adding VF on top of it is not pleasing experience.

If you want to follow Bessa route, just get T and use external VF for framing.

ic-racer · Jul 26, 2022

That Ricoh lens looks smaller than the Color Skopar so I think the viewfinder image should be ok. The Bessa has TTL metering from the shutter curtain with a center weighted pattern which seems to work well with a 21mm.

Just a trip down memory lane, I was re-reading the camera quest site below. I was really impressed by the write up there (from 2007) and got mine back then when they first came out. I really thought it such a fantastic camera. I'm not a rangefinder person, I prefer SLR, but this camera was going to be my one and only 35mm rangefinder. I'm a little shocked that they are not longer in production. I thought with a price point 1/3 of Leica, they would still be selling well.

Voigtlander Bessa R4M / R4A

Fragomeni · Jul 26, 2022

Yea, I’m not overly concerned with viewfinder blockage. I don’t have a Bessa on hand anymore but my experience with them was that viewfinder blockage wasn’t much more noticeable than on my Leica M bodies (with my preferred lenses). And as ic-racer mentioned, the Ricoh lens is small (much smaller than the Super Angulon which has always been my preferred 21 and was never an issue (it blocks part of the finder but you get used to “seeing past it” very easily).

I haven’t extensively tested the meter in the R4M or R4A so that’s good to think about but I’ve only heard of issues when the rear element of the lens protrudes too far into the camera and messes up meter readings. That’s one of the things I’ve been wondering about and trying to get answered about the Ricoh lens but again it’s rear element protrudes less than the SA so hopefully not an issue.

As to viewfinder, I’m specifically interested in the R4M and R4A because they have 21 frame lines eliminating the need for a top mounted finder. That’s my main reason for thinking about this above all else.

ic-racer · Jul 26, 2022

Fragomeni said:
Yea, I’m not overly concerned with viewfinder blockage. I don’t have a Bessa on hand anymore but my experience with them was that viewfinder blockage wasn’t much more noticeable than on my Leica M bodies (with my preferred lenses). And as ic-racer mentioned, the Ricoh lens is small (much smaller than the Super Angulon which has always been my preferred 21 and was never an issue (it blocks part of the finder but you get used to “seeing past it” very easily).

I haven’t extensively tested the meter in the R4M or R4A so that’s good to think about but I’ve only heard of issues when the rear element of the lens protrudes too far into the camera and messes up meter readings. That’s one of the things I’ve been wondering about and trying to get answered about the Ricoh lens but again it’s rear element protrudes less than the SA so hopefully not an issue.

As to viewfinder, I’m specifically interested in the R4M and R4A because they have 21 frame lines eliminating the need for a top mounted finder. That’s my main reason for thinking about this above all else.

Yes it was the 21mm viewfinder that sold me. That and I had just met Lee Friedlander and had a lengthy discussion where he suggested I get a R4M (his emphasis on the "M") as he had a few and his Leica was now "in a drawer." I literally logged on to camera quest that night and ordered mine.

Fragomeni · Jul 26, 2022

ic-racer said:
Yes it was the 21mm viewfinder that sold me. That and I had just met Lee Friedlander and had a lengthy discussion where he suggested I get a R4M (his emphasis on the "M") as he had a few and his Leica was now "in a drawer." I literally logged on to camera quest that night and ordered mine.

That would be a hell of an endorsement right there. I'm leaning toward the M just because it will be functional down the line after the R4A electronics start to fail. I'm also interested because I tend to baby my Leica gear which actually gets in my way because im sometimes reluctant to take stuff out for fear of loss or damage which I know wouldn't be a concern with the Bessa for me so thats motivation as well.

Ricoh 21mm LTM with Voigtlander Bessa R4M/R4A?

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