Rollei RPX 25: Grain and Resolution

acroell · Sep 3, 2014

Just a cautious note on the development of RPX 25, from my development tests: Do not overexpose the film since the shoulder is very short and clips abruptly, so highlights will have practically no separation above Zone VIII*. I tried it in three developers, Tetenal Neofin blue (high dilution, 1+32), XTOL 1+1, and Pyrocat MC. Neofin blue was essentially unusable since the highlights already "clipped" at zone VII. Strange, because similar type low speed films like APX 25, Rolleipan/Adox Pan 25, and Efke 25/Adox CHS25/Rolleipan 25 (v.2) never did that. XTOL 1+1 (24°C/75F; 30s continuous agitation, then 4 inversions/30s))gave the following results for me. N-1: EI 32, 6:00min; N: EI40, 6:30min; N+2: EI 50, 8:00min. As one can see, timing is very critical, as is agitation. Pyrocat MC 1+1+100 (24°C/75F, 30s continuous agitation, then 2 inversions/2min) gave 10:00 min at EI32 for a contrast between N and N+1.

*that is a curve type I last saw in Tech Pan with special developers like Technidol or Neofin doku

Old-N-Feeble · Sep 3, 2014

^^^ Overexpose and underprocess to place highlights at Zone VI or VII then selenium tone to extend as needed.

acroell · Sep 3, 2014

Old-N-Feeble said:
^^^ Overexpose and underprocess to place highlights at Zone VI or VII then selenium tone to extend as needed.

Yes, in a pinch that would gain up to one zone, although the "overexposure" part should be 1/3rd stop only for this specific film. However, I'd rather have a more "normal" film curve, and since Fotoimpex was/is selling one last batch of Adox Pan 25 in 120, I stocked up on that instead.
My main message was that one should treat this film with caution, similar to a slide film when it comes to exposure and latitude.

aRolleiBrujo · Oct 12, 2014

SKatkovsky · Oct 20, 2014

Hello Henning,

Thank you very much for the great work! Two things caught my attention. First, as far as I know, Kodak BW 400 CN and Ilford XP2 Super are essentially the same film, made by Ilford, the only difference is that XP2 made on a clear base for the traditional BW enlarging, while Kodak has a standard color negative mask. But your results for them are very different:

Henning Serger said:
Kodak BW 400 CN: 100 115 Lp/mm
Ilford XP2 Super: 80 90 Lp/mm

Do you have any explanation for this fact, or maybe I am just wrong and those are actually different films?

Second is:

Henning Serger said:
Rollei Superpan 200 / Rollei Retro 400S / Rollei Infrared (all the same film = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200):

I've contacted Maco about a year ago and they've confirmed me that Superpan 200 / Rollei Retro 400S is indeed the same film (Aviphot 200), at least in their current line, but the Rollei Infrared 400 is different (Aviphot 400 probably). My own experience agree with that, i.e., I can't find the difference between Superpan 200 and Rollei Retro 400S, but the Infrared, shot and developed exactly the same as the former two films, showed clearly different results.

pdeeh · Oct 20, 2014

SKatkovsky said:
as far as I know, Kodak BW 400 CN and Ilford XP2 Super are essentially the same film, made by Ilford,

Not correct.

BW400CN was made by Kodak (but is now withdrawn as a product line)

You may be thinking of Fuji Neopan 400CN, which does seem to be made by Ilford for Fuji, although of course neither manufacturer will confirm or deny that for perfectly normal commercial reasons.

Neopan 400CN and XP2S won't be the same film, due to Harman's policy on rebranding, but they might be quite similar.

SKatkovsky · Oct 20, 2014

Thank you for the clarification!

flavio81 · Oct 27, 2014

Dear Henning,

The amount of info you have contributed here (in the classic German tradition of precision and search for the facts) is amazing.
So the D800 is only able to do 80lp/mm? My mind is blown. Boooooom!!

PS: Your figures also help us differentiate, for the first time, between the qualities of Fuji Neopan Acros, Kodak TMX, Ilford Delta 100, and Pan F+. I love Acros but I suspected it had to give something in exchange for finer grain. I also suspect that Acros is not true 100-speed but something like 64, what do you think?

alentine · Sep 6, 2018

Hello,
This thread deserves to visit 2018.
Hope I'm right!

Henning Serger · Apr 19, 2019

alentine said:
Hello,
This thread deserves to visit 2018.
Hope I'm right!

Maybe even in 2019 .
A friend of mine give me a hint that there are questions unanswered, so I will do that. Better late than never .

Best regards,
Henning

Henning Serger · Apr 19, 2019

SKatkovsky said:
I've contacted Maco about a year ago and they've confirmed me that Superpan 200 / Rollei Retro 400S is indeed the same film (Aviphot 200), at least in their current line, but the Rollei Infrared 400 is different (Aviphot 400 probably).

In 2008 Agfa did the last coating run of Aviphot Pan 400 / ASP 400S. And they informed all their important customers about that. When the stock of that last coating run was depleted, Agfa also listed that film as discontinued (about six years ago). Some time later this film - together with the discontinuation notice - disappeared from the Agfa Aviphot Pan film list. Therefore this film isn't available anymore fresh for quite a long time.
Last year Agfa informed all their important customers that the last coating run of Aviphot Pan 200 was done in 2018. They will not produce this film again. When the current stock will be depleted, this film will be gone, too. The reason for this production stop: The main customers have been the military air forces, especially from some European countries. For example the German "Luftwaffe" used Aviphot Pan 200 in their RECCE-Tornados. The quality was excellent, but digital is faster nowadays. That is the reason why meanwhile digital is mostly used by air forces: The pilots take the shots, and then the pictures are send already during the flight to the ground station for analysis. Just recently I've talked to a Oberstleutnant (Colonel) from the German "Luftwaffe" who is involved in that topic (he is a film enthusiast and has joined some of my film workshops in the past). He confirmed that.

Best regards,
Henning

Henning Serger · Apr 19, 2019

flavio81 said:
Dear Henning,
The amount of info you have contributed here (in the classic German tradition of precision and search for the facts) is amazing.

Thank you very much Flavio.

flavio81 said:
So the D800 is only able to do 80lp/mm? My mind is blown. Boooooom!!

Well, the absolute physical resolution limit of the D800 is the Nyquist frequency. That are about 100 Lp/mm with that sensor. With the best lenses you can reach about 90-95 lp/mm with it.

flavio81 said:
PS: Your figures also help us differentiate, for the first time, between the qualities of Fuji Neopan Acros, Kodak TMX, Ilford Delta 100, and Pan F+. I love Acros but I suspected it had to give something in exchange for finer grain. I also suspect that Acros is not true 100-speed but something like 64, what do you think?

Acros 100 had set the benchmark for fineness of grain in that sensitivity class. But concerning sharpness and resolution, TMX and Delta 100 are better. Concerning the real speed of Acros: In the developers I have used for it it indeed had about 1/3 stop less speed compared to Delta 100 and TMX.

Best regards,
Henning

trendland · Apr 19, 2019

[QUOTEFor example the German "Luftwaffe" used Aviphot Pan 200 in their RECCE-Tornados. The quality was excellent, but digital is faster nowadays. That is the reason why meanwhile digital is mostly used by air forces: The pilots take the shots, and then the pictures are send already during the flight to the ground station for analysis. Just recently I've talked to a Oberstleutnant (Colonel) from the German "Luftwaffe" who is involved in that topic (he is a film enthusiast and has joined some of my film workshops in the past). He confirmed that.
[/QUOTE]
Right said Henning!!!!!!

I had a simular issue to the discontinuation (of the production of all the Aviphot Films) - the need
of them and the probably new (todays production)!! Perhaps you remember their was a TV documentation at N-TV about the hybrid workfow with films for Air - reconaissance!
That would be the key of further production (no matter what it cost/if it is economical a.s.o.)

But the doku seams to be filmed around 2005 - 2009? Perhaps (in best case 2011)!
2016 I met an AWACS crew in Hamburg - I asket if AG 51 (I served at AG52 but just for short) with Recce Tornado is still using Film?
They were not involved and can't say (these AWACS guys with their computer stuff.....)!
But it seams to be reconaisance pods (Tornado is a real OLDTIMER btw) is changed around
2010 - 2012!

!!!! And demand to such films is real low for photography!

with regards

PS : I mentioned it in a thread with some nice pics of the New digital RECCE POD but I can't remember where!

Klaus_H · Apr 20, 2019

Hello Henning,

Thank you for the information about Avipan 200.
Do you have information about the production of Avipan 80 ?
Will it be in production for foreseeable time?

Best regards,
Klaus

Henning Serger · Apr 20, 2019

Klaus_H said:
Hello Henning,

Thank you for the information about Avipan 200.
Do you have information about the production of Avipan 80 ?
Will it be in production for foreseeable time?

Best regards,
Klaus

Hello Klaus,

yes, Agfa Aviphot Pan 80 remains in production. This film is used for more purposes and there is a continued demand from the main customers.

Best regards,
Henning

Klaus_H · Apr 20, 2019

Thank you!

Aviphot Pan 80 is a very important film for infrared photography.

Best regards,
Klaus

Henning Serger · Apr 20, 2019

Klaus_H said:
Thank you!

Aviphot Pan 80 is a very important film for infrared photography.

Best regards,
Klaus

Klaus, you're welcome.
And I completely agree: Aviphot Pan 80 can give excellent results as infrared film. I have often used it in the past for that purpose. But after my intensive tests of ADOX HR-50 I have switched to the HR-50 for my infrared work, too. That film also gives excellent infrared results with a RG 715 / R72 infrared filter ( I am using the Heliopan RG 715). And it offers some - for me - significant advantages:
I get a different, significantly better characteristic curve with ADOX HR-50 (less S-shaped). HR-50 has better shadow detail and less overall contrast. And the new ADOX HR-DEV developer fits this film very well.

Best regards,
Henning

Klaus_H · Apr 20, 2019

Henning, you're right.

HR-50 is the best available version of Aviphot Pan 80 in 135 format, followed by RPX 25 and R80S.
I hope HR-50 will be available soon in 120 format.
HR-50 provides great results with RG 715 at 3 ASA developed in Atomal 49 dilution 1+1 or in FX-39 dilution 1+19.

Best regards,
Klaus

AgX · Apr 20, 2019

Klaus_H said:
HR-50 is the best available version of Aviphot Pan 80 in 135 format, followed by RPX 25 and R80S.
I hope HR-50 will be available soon in 120 format.

Rollei RPX 25 is not Aviphot 80 by data, neither by rumour.

Klaus_H · Apr 20, 2019

AgX said:
Rollei RPX 25 is not Aviphot 80 by data, neither by rumour.

... but by own tests ...

On my own test results I do trust.

Best regards,
Klaus

Anon Ymous · Apr 20, 2019

Henning Serger said:
... I get a different, significantly better characteristic curve with ADOX HR-50 (less S-shaped). HR-50 has better shadow detail and less overall contrast. And the new ADOX HR-DEV developer fits this film very well.

Hello Henning

Is Adox HR-50 a modified (preflashed) Aviphot Pan 80?

Henning Serger · Apr 21, 2019

Klaus_H said:
HR-50 provides great results with RG 715 at 3 ASA developed in Atomal 49 dilution 1+1 or in FX-39 dilution 1+19.

Best regards,
Klaus

Hello Klaus,
yes, both Atomal and FX-39 II deliver excellent results with HR-50. ADOX FX-39 II give also excellent results in 1+9 dilution (more straight, linear characteristic curve).
I've also got excellent results with the new ADOX HR DEV (not only with ADOX HR-50, but also with ADOX Silvermax and Kodak TMY-2).

Best regards,
Henning

baachitraka · Apr 21, 2019

ADOX HR DEV seems to be the answer for long sought developer that may last long, gives full-speed and good grain.

Henning Serger · Apr 21, 2019

Anon Ymous said:
Hello Henning

Is Adox HR-50 a modified (preflashed) Aviphot Pan 80?

I am running an independent photography test lab. Film, paper and photochemistry manufacturers ask me to test their products and give a scientific assessment. They want a double-check and hard test / critical opinion. My task is to identify potential flaws they maybe have overlooked. So that products can be improved.
That is one of the reasons why I have seen several film factories from the inside.
I've seen the HR-50 production at the ADOX factory. And their sophisticated machinery for their 'Speed Boost' technology. This process and machinery is unique. No other manufacturer has implemented that. ADOX has invested lots of resources and time with their R&D team to make such a technology a reality in industrial production.
This technology is a company secret of ADOX. Therefore I had to sign of course a NDA.
But I absolutely can confirm that
- ADOX HR-50 is a unique product, different to all other films on the market and with its own special characteristics
- the 'Speed Boost' technology is real, unique, and needs special, sophisticated machinery and very skilled experts to be operated.

Best regards,
Henning

Sal Santamaura · Apr 21, 2019

Henning Serger said:
...I've also got excellent results with the new ADOX HR DEV (not only with ADOX HR-50, but also with ADOX Silvermax and Kodak TMY-2)...

Henning, can you post a characteristic curve of TMY-2 in ADOX HR DEV? If so, did you develop in accordance with the time/agitation regime specified for that film here:

https://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/images/products/media/63385_4_PDF-Datenblatt.pdf ?

Thanks in advance.

Rollei RPX 25: Grain and Resolution

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