SFX 200 Serious Issue

Brian McNamee · Feb 28, 2019

Hi Guys,

Ilford SFX 200.

Fist post for me, thanks for accepting me.
The attached image was shot on a hasselblad H1 and developed in 1D-11 for 10mins as suggested. Rinsed as per normal in tap water..fixed in ilford Fix and washed in photoflo using distilled water.

Any advice on what happened?

Thanks

eatfrog · Feb 28, 2019

Issue with backing paper. Film was either expired or poorly stored.

tezzasmall · Feb 28, 2019

There was a very similar post and picture of negs like this very recently. I'll go through my history to try and find it.

In the mean time, hopefully others will chip in with comments...

Terry S

Lachlan Young · Feb 28, 2019

Poor storage - likely from refrigeration or freezing & defrosting improperly. Has caused backing paper to stick to the film. Operator error in other words.

Ian Grant · Feb 28, 2019

Lachlan Young said:
Poor storage - likely from refrigeration or freezing & defrosting improperly. Has caused backing paper to stick to the film. Operator error in other words.

On an Ilford factory visit a few years ago they told us that one of the major issues people had with films was from refrigeration and freezing their films which were then not allowed to warm up slowly. In fact they said if frozen then first put in a refrigerator then later a cool place. So I agree with you.

Ian

halfaman · Feb 28, 2019

A friend of myne and myself had the same issue with some 120 rolls of Ilford FP4+ last year. It is not an isolated issue.

pentaxuser · Feb 28, 2019

halfaman said:
A friend of myne and myself had the same issue with some 120 rolls of Ilford FP4+ last year. It is not an isolated issue.

Just so we can be sure of what you mean when you say you had similar problems, I think it will help if you were to confirm or deny that your friend and you had both frozen the films and then used them without warming them up slowly. If your problem was with fresh film properly stored at room temperature or just in a cool room then that may suggest other causes.

pentaxuser

Bob Carnie · Feb 28, 2019

We are seeing more and more of this.. I think the fact that a lot of old film is being purchased from people not storing the film correctlly may be the cause... Maybe not the case with the OP but I see
these types of failures on all the sites or groups I am on.
When film was king and digital was only a gleam in Canons eye this type of failure was not prevalent as film was fresh and abundent.

Just my 2cents - I would be wary of purchasing old film, but if you want to send it to me I will try it out on my own work.

halfaman · Feb 28, 2019

pentaxuser said:
Just so we can be sure of what you mean when you say you had similar problems, I think it will help if you were to confirm or deny that your friend and you had both frozen the films and then used them without warming them up slowly. If your problem was with fresh film properly stored at room temperature or just in a cool room then that may suggest other causes.

pentaxuser

What I mean is that I am seeing too many similar cases with Ilford film in recent times, this is the fourth case I am aware of including myne. Films affected are FP4+, HP5+ and now SFX 200.

There are two possibilties:
1.- Four unrelated and experienced persons have suddenly forgotten how to store film
2.- There is something wrong with Ilford or their distribution channel.

Sal Santamaura · Feb 28, 2019

OK, let the HARMAN haters gave a go at Ilford 120 film now. Kodak can use some companionship. When all film suppliers are put out of business, there's always digital. Sad.

AgX · Feb 28, 2019

Ian Grant said:
On an Ilford factory visit a few years ago they told us that one of the major issues people had with films was from refrigeration and freezing their films which were then not allowed to warm up slowly. In fact they said if frozen then first put in a refrigerator then later a cool place. So I agree with you.

As long as the film remains in its original sealed package there is no need for a slow warming up. In other cases there should not be an issue either.

Paul Manuell · Feb 28, 2019

AgX said:
As long as the film remains in its original sealed package there is no need for a slow warming up. In other cases there should not be an issue either.

So taking a film out of a freezer or fridge, then out of its sealed packaging and loading it straight into a camera on, say, a hot July afternoon without letting it acclimatise first is ok in your view, is it? The condensation that would quickly form on the film and inside the film holder when attached to/inserted into the camera wouldn't be an issue then?

Brian McNamee · Feb 28, 2019

I bought this stock (10 rolls) off a supplier i have been using for a while. He stores his stock correctly and up to now iv had zero problems, This was never frozen or in fridge.All wrapping was intact and as it should be. Iv shot another roll from same batch with no issues, although i DID use Xtol for it. Both of these shots were 30mins apart one on the left looks considerably less noisy...

OptiKen · Feb 28, 2019

I had the exact same experience with a roll of Rerapan 400 ASA 127 roll film and went back to Freestyle with the issue. They checked some existing stock they had from the same production run and discovered that it was a problem with the emulsion. they replaced the (3) rolls I purchased from them with fresh from another batch

MattKing · Feb 28, 2019

Brian McNamee said:
I bought this stock (10 rolls) off a supplier i have been using for a while. He stores his stock correctly and up to now iv had zero problems, This was never frozen or in fridge.All wrapping was intact and as it should be. Iv shot another roll from same batch with no issues, although i DID use Xtol for it. Both of these shots were 30mins apart one on the left looks considerably less noisy...

Unfortunately, your supplier is also vulnerable to the same problems, if damage of this sort occurred before the film got to them.
The supply chain isn't nearly as reliable as it once was.

Ian Grant · Feb 28, 2019

AgX said:
As long as the film remains in its original sealed package there is no need for a slow warming up. In other cases there should not be an issue either.

No that's incorrect, Ilford made that point quite clear. All emulsions contain some residual moisture but backing papers contain more even inside the sealed foil packaging. So if you've frozen that moisture it needs to unfreeze and diffuse slowly, too fast and you get these issues.

Ian

Andrew O'Neill · Feb 28, 2019

My frozen roll film (and sheet film) always goes into the fridge for a few hours, then into my darkroom for a few hours more, before use. Never had an issue with Ilford film, including SFX 200.

AgX · Feb 28, 2019

Paul Manuell said:
So taking a film out of a freezer or fridge, then out of its sealed packaging and loading it straight into a camera on, say, a hot July afternoon without letting it acclimatise first is ok in your view, is it? The condensation that would quickly form on the film and inside the film holder when attached to/inserted into the camera wouldn't be an issue then?[/QUOTE

If the film stays within the sealed foil thee will be no issue.
If the roll or cassette will be immediately opened, the warm air first either must diffuse though the backin paper respectively with the cassette first enter the cassette. And paper and emulsion even have some buffer capacity.

AgX · Feb 28, 2019

What makes me wonder is that lately we got several cases of mottling.

winger · Feb 28, 2019

Brian McNamee said:
Both of these shots were 30mins apart one on the left looks considerably less noisy...

The mottling is present in both shots. It's visible in the sky in the left one, just not as obvious.

And, yes, it needs to warm up slowly, whether it's in the foil or not. And the foil shouldn't be opened until it is warmed up.

AgX · Feb 28, 2019

winger said:
And, yes, it needs to warm up slowly, whether it's in the foil or not. And the foil shouldn't be opened until it is warmed up.

Condensation takes place by vapour in the warm air condensing on the cold surface of what subject is taken out of the cold/fridge. Thus on the outside of the packaging foil or on the outside of the cassette. Otherwise that warm air would have to get somehow onto the film.

There is no need for warming up slowly as long the critical surfaces are warm when in contact with warm air. If they come in contact all.

pentaxuser · Feb 28, 2019

halfaman said:
What I mean is that I am seeing too many similar cases with Ilford film in recent times, this is the fourth case I am aware of including myne. Films affected are FP4+, HP5+ and now SFX 200.

There are two possibilties:
1.- Four unrelated and experienced persons have suddenly forgotten how to store film
2.- There is something wrong with Ilford or their distribution channel.

So just to be clear, how did you and your friend store the film? I am simply trying to help the OP. We have seen explanations from other experienced users that cold storage and lack of time taken to bring the film up to ambient temperature can produce the effect seen by the OP.
I thought I had asked a simple question of you to which an answer on how you stored the film prior to use was going to be equally simple

pentaxuser

mshchem · Feb 28, 2019

I have to ask. Can you see this on the film directly with a glass? Any chance this is from scanning?

thefizz · Feb 28, 2019

The issue seems to be good results with xtol, bad results with ID11, for rolls from the same batch which Brian did not refrigerate.

Brian McNamee · Mar 1, 2019

mshchem said:
I have to ask. Can you see this on the film directly with a glass? Any chance this is from scanning?

Hi, no iv scanned loads since and before on this machine and no issues. Im scanning a few 35mm frames now that has been developed in the same ID-11 as the problem roll...will post results soon.

SFX 200 Serious Issue

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