Shooting a wedding using Holga and Ilford 3200 -- what to expect?

Helge · May 20, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
Meanwhile primarily because of APUG in 2007 I started buying aHasselblad 503 CX for $400US, the 80mm lens for $600US to $800US, the 50mm, 150mm and 250mm lenses for $400 to 600US all EX+ because I was too stupid to go chase ever spiraling higher prices of quickly evolving digital camera or the Unicorns of Holga and Lomo. So here I sit with lots of Hasselblad and Nikon AF equipment and not one Holga or Lomo to be seen. Woe is me for sticking to traditional film cameras! Why did I never hear the siren calls of Holga, Loma and other kewl ventures? I still do not have atop of the line Nikon or Canon digital camera. Now I console myself with an appreciable bank account and prime photographic equipment. Woe is me!

The effects of any of those commodity “quirky” cameras, can be achieved with much more variety and control with a bog standard folder like a Nettar that can be had for practically free.
Put on a narrow lens hood for physical vignette.
Put a dap of anything on a lens filter and smear it a bit.
Stretch fishing line or metal wire in front of the lens.
Plus a lot of other effects, including just great high resolution shots with a bit of character from the triplet.
Set it to f11 and 50th of a second, use some forgiving film like FP4 use Rodinal stand and you have as carefree shooting as can get. Including shooting inside by just opening up, going to 25 speed and using the kickstand.

Sirius Glass · May 21, 2023

Helge said:
The effects of any of those commodity “quirky” cameras, can be achieved with much more variety and control with a bog standard folder like a Nettar that can be had for practically free.
Put on narrow lens hood for physical vignette.
Put a dap of anything on a lens filter and smear it a bit.
Stretch fishing line or metal wire in front of the lens.
Plus a lot of other effects, including just great high resolution shots with a bit of character from the triplet.
Set it to f11 and 50th of a second, use some forgiving film like FP4 use Rodinal stand and you have as carefree shooting as can get. Including shooting inside by just opening up, going to 25 speed and using the kickstand.

I could do that with the Hasselblads or Nikons but why?

Helge · May 21, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
I could do that with the Hasselblads or Nikons but why?

The are not as portable as a folder. And you wouldn’t typically subject a Hasselblad to the stuff you would a folder.
Are you questioning filtering in general?

Sirius Glass · May 21, 2023

Helge said:
The are not as portable as a folder. And you wouldn’t typically subject a Hasselblad to the stuff you would a folder.
Are you questioning filtering in general?

I had a folder and it is much less useful because among other things it does not have a choice of lenses and I do not want to waste my time unfolding a camera. Just because a folder works for you does not mean that it is the only camera everyone else wants.

markjwyatt · May 21, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
I had a folder and it is much less useful because among other things it does not have a choice of lenses and I do not want to waste my time unfolding a camera. Just because a folder works for you does not mean that it is the only camera everyone else wants.

A 6x9 folder is really nice because you get an amazing large negative with a small light package. I have found with a couple of folders that the reliability of unfolding is not always as good as I would like, so this, plus having to advance with red windows (and uncertainty of today's inking) do limit there use for me.

Helge · May 21, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
I had a folder and it is much less useful because among other things it does not have a choice of lenses and I do not want to waste my time unfolding a camera. Just because a folder works for you does not mean that it is the only camera everyone else wants.

Compared to a Holga it’s a no-brainer.
Trouble with medium format is that glass outside normal lenses either get real slow or get real heavy, large and expensive.

Helge · May 21, 2023

markjwyatt said:
A 6x9 folder is really nice because you get an amazing large negative with a small light package. I have found with a couple of folders that the reliability of unfolding is not always as good as I would like, so this, plus having to advance with red windows (and uncertainty of today's inking) do limit there use for me.

Folding mechanisms was patented to the gills. Basically in Germany only Zeiss Ikon and Agfa had the good ones.

6x9 folders have big problems with film flatness as well. You need to stop to 11 to get good reliable results.
6x9 was mainly to get contact prints of an acceptable size.
Smaller sizes (6x6 & 645) were for people who probably also thought about enlargement.

Red window never breaks. Even modern folders like the Fuji 645 line from the 80s sacrificed one frame for auto spacing.
I know some folders claim all frames and auto spacing, but they often have problems with overlap.
Bring a small flashlight or use your phone to get a good look at the window.

Sirius Glass · May 21, 2023

Helge said:
Compared to a Holga it’s a no-brainer.
Trouble with medium format is that glass outside normal lenses either get real slow or get real heavy, large and expensive.

Silly me, I forgot that we were no discussing real cameras in this thread. I will go sit in a corner.

Helge · May 21, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
Silly me, I forgot that we were no discussing real cameras in this thread. I will go sit in a corner.

Stopped down to 11 or higher, with a shade and on a tripod you’ll be hard pressed to know a Novar from a Planar at normal enlargements.

Sirius Glass · May 21, 2023

Helge said:
Stopped down to 11 or higher, with a shade and on a tripod you’ll be hard pressed to know a Novar from a Planar at normal enlargements.

But that does not change the focal length. I had a SuperDolly with a wonderfully sharp Zeiss lens.

-persimmon-tree- · May 22, 2023

Nicholas Lindan said:
I just shoved my meter into a dim corner of my living room. Result: ASA 3200, f8 1/2 second.
Or, a more reasonable f2 @ 1/30. At 1/125 on a Holga you would be 6 stops underexposed -or- exposing an ASA 1000 / 3200 film at ASA 128,000 / 400,000.

Bar lighting is all over the place, but I'd say the dingy corner of my living room is a rather well lit bar with late afternoon sunlight coming in the back windows.

This is very helpful, thanks! That settles it: will use Portra 800 in my point and shoot that has integrated flash and see what I get.

xya · May 22, 2023

-persimmon-tree- said:
This is very helpful, thanks! That settles it: will use Portra 800 in my point and shoot that has integrated flash and see what I get.

A very good decision IMO. Good luck!

xya · May 22, 2023

...Basically in Germany only Zeiss Ikon and Agfa had the good ones.

No. What about Voigtländer or Plaubel? They made better Cameras than Zeiss or Agfa. What about Certo, Balda, Welta or Zeca?

6x9 folders have big problems with film flatness as well. You need to stop to 11 to get good reliable results.
6x9 was mainly to get contact prints of an acceptable size.

No again. 6x9 Voigtländer and Plaubel hold the film perfectly flat and give good results at wider apertures.

Red window never breaks. Even modern folders like the Fuji 645 line from the 80s sacrificed one frame for auto spacing.
I know some folders claim all frames and auto spacing, but they often have problems with overlap.

No encore. The Fuji 645i series solved the problem. And yes, 645 Konica Pearl III and IV do not overlap either.

Helge · May 22, 2023

xya said:
No. What about Voigtländer or Plaubel? They made better Cameras than Zeiss or Agfa. What about Certo, Balda, Welta or Zeca?

No again. 6x9 Voigtländer and Plaubel hold the film perfectly flat and give good results at wider apertures.

No encore. The Fuji 645i series solved the problem. And yes, 645 Konica Pearl III and IV do not overlap either.

Reverse order:
Solved it with a motor drive and a digital counter.
And no, Pearl has big problems with spacing of frames, and broken mechanisms.

Any 6x9 folder has problems with flatness. Even the last ones released.
You might get lucky with a frame or two, but it will always be a worry at low f numbers.
Find a broken folder that you can remove the bellows on and have a look. Or try to get reflectance from a light you shine through the lens from dummy film.

Certo with the Dolly and Welta has the good folding pantograph too. Probably licensed.
Certo spoils it with wonky unit focusing after the war though and Welta AFAIK never release a coated lens folder camera.
The rest suffers from wobbly, bendy folding mechanisms.

Plaubel uses a scissor strut erector. Completely different from a folder, with it own advantages and disadvantages.

Helge · May 22, 2023

-persimmon-tree- said:
This is very helpful, thanks! That settles it: will use Portra 800 in my point and shoot that has integrated flash and see what I get.

Now that you are indoors, why not use bounced flash? Far better results.
Several ways to do that, depending on the camera.

MattKing · May 22, 2023

Helge said:
Now that you are indoors, why not use bounced flash? Far better results.
Several ways to do that, depending on the camera.

Except is those darn high ceilinged ballrooms that my wedding clients insisted on having their receptions in!
It is a good tool to have available though - when circumstances permit.

Sirius Glass · May 22, 2023

MattKing said:
Except is those darn high ceilinged ballrooms that my wedding clients insisted on having their receptions in!
It is a good tool to have available though - when circumstances permit.

One could bounce off the walls.

Helge · May 22, 2023

MattKing said:
Except is those darn high ceilinged ballrooms that my wedding clients insisted on having their receptions in!
It is a good tool to have available though - when circumstances permit.

You can bounce from surprisingly far away with a powerful hammerhead flash like a Metz. Especially with 800 speed film.
And you can use wall bounce as well too.
Used well, it will light up the background as much as the subject.

MattKing · May 22, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
One could bounce off the walls.

Helge said:
You can bounce from surprisingly far away with a powerful hammerhead flash like a Metz. Especially with 800 speed film.
And you can use wall bounce as well too.
Used well, it will light up the background as much as the subject.

Much of my wedding work was with Metz 60 series flashes - often two of them, and about as powerful as you can/could get. And I spent many a wedding searching out appropriate bounce surfaces.
But as the OP is going to be at a wedding outdoors and in a barn, I'm willing to bet that bounce isn't something that would be easy.
But as I posted, it is a good tool to have available though - when circumstances permit.

Helge · May 22, 2023

MattKing said:
Much of my wedding work was with Metz 60 series flashes - often two of them, and about as powerful as you can/could get. And I spent many a wedding searching out appropriate bounce surfaces.
But as the OP is going to be at a wedding outdoors and in a barn, I'm willing to bet that bounce isn't something that would be easy.
But as I posted, it is a good tool to have available though - when circumstances permit.

With 800 speed film he’s going to pick up quite a bit of ambient. Even a barn with the bounce surface four meters away in typical wood colour will give useful results.
Outdoors, bounce off another guest/assistant with their back turned.

foc · May 23, 2023

If you bounce flash off any surface that isn't white, you will get a colour cast the same colour as the surface of the bounce.
Depending on the barns interior roof this will effect the photos colour.

brbo · May 23, 2023

We will now introduce gels to a guy that wanted to snap a few shots with a Holga and BW film...

I LOVE Photrio!

(preflashig, we forgot to tell him about preflashing the film!!!!)

Helge · May 23, 2023

brbo said:
We will now introduce gels to a guy that wanted to snap a few shots with a Holga and BW film...

I LOVE Photrio!

(preflashig, we forgot to tell him about preflashing the film!!!!)

If it was simple everyone would do it.
Unless you are going for the on camera flash amateur look with blown out foreground, pitch dark background and drop shadows around everything, bounce is the only way to go.

warden · May 23, 2023

-persimmon-tree- said:
This is very helpful, thanks! That settles it: will use Portra 800 in my point and shoot that has integrated flash and see what I get.

nooooo!

I vote for taking the Holga. Have some fun: hold the camera down on a table and expose for a second or so and capture blurred friends dancing. Forget the flash. Take one second exposures while you are on the dance floor too. Practice before you go if you can, and enjoy.

henryvk · May 23, 2023

The 1/100 or thereabouts shutter speed is not slow enough for 3200 indoors. Slower would cause blur anyway, so what you want is a flash.

If your alternative is a point-and-shoot camera with a front flash I feel like you might as well bring the Holga with a flash and just use ISO 400 black and white film like Fomapan. You were trying to do something different than just bringing a "boringly" competent SLR or point-and-shoot, so why not go with that? They have a professional photographer already to take nice clean digital images, I think the event deserve to be supplemented with a more unpredictable element.

Shooting a wedding using Holga and Ilford 3200 -- what to expect?

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Shooting a wedding using Holga and Ilford 3200 -- what to expect?

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