Silver gelatin print using digital projector?

jmoche · Oct 23, 2021

I have a huge stash of early 70's negatives, mostly all of which are too damaged to print using an enlarger. I am able to get them presentable in Photoshop and then print a digital negative to use in contact printing. However, my results have been far less than desired. Curves are tough, contrast is nearly impossible to control, and the combination of Pictorico OHP and OEM Epson inks is getting expensive. Has anyone here tried using a digital projector (like the ones used for all those PowerPoint presentations we're had to suffer through) to project a negative image onto silver gelatin paper? Thoughts?

Thanks!

-- Joe

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 24, 2021

Don't use Pictorico. I use stuff that is identical, but much cheaper. I use refillable cartridges and ink from inkowl. Very economical. Making curves is easy with chartthrob (free download), as well as profiles with QTR.

jmoche · Oct 25, 2021

Thanks, Andrew. I'll give chartthrob a try. I've been using a similar program from the Easy Digital Negatives website. I've used some cheaper alternatives to Pictorico, but found that I was having issues with the ink rubbing off onto my enlarging paper. As for non-Epson inks, I use my printer for prints that I sell, and I really can't afford to take chances with third-party inks.

wiltw · Oct 25, 2021

Digital projector resolution is attrocious...4K is 3840 x 2160 pixels...8MPixels what digital cameras had in 2004 !

radiant · Oct 26, 2021

wiltw said:
Digital projector resolution is attrocious...4K is 3840 x 2160 pixels...8MPixels what digital cameras had in 2004 !

Pixels is not directly the "issue" here - the output DPI is. That depends on what is the magnification of that 8MPix image. I think 100 DPI is fine for larger prints. With that 8MPixel resolution you can do pretty big ones.

3840 x 2160 pixels at 100 DPI makes 97cm x 54cm print. That is 38 inches x 21 inches.

You can make 32cm x 18cm (12 x 7 inches) print at 300 dpi with that resolution.

jmoche · Oct 26, 2021

vedostuu said:
Pixels is not directly the "issue" here - the output DPI is. That depends on what is the magnification of that 8MPix image. I think 100 DPI is fine for larger prints. With that 8MPixel resolution you can do pretty big ones.

3840 x 2160 pixels at 100 DPI makes 97cm x 54cm print. That is 38 inches x 21 inches.

You can make 32cm x 18cm (12 x 7 inches) print at 300 dpi with that resolution.

I'm not planning to go larger than 8x10. I'm using a college darkroom, and I suspect the projector will spill a lot of light into the rest of the room. So, I'll have to try this when I'm the only person using the darkroom. That opportunity will probably come next week. If I manage to get this done, I'll post the results -- good or horrible.

radiant · Oct 27, 2021

jmoche said:
I'm not planning to go larger than 8x10. I'm using a college darkroom, and I suspect the projector will spill a lot of light into the rest of the room. So, I'll have to try this when I'm the only person using the darkroom. That opportunity will probably come next week. If I manage to get this done, I'll post the results -- good or horrible.

That will be hassle for sure. Also the exposure time will be crazy short from a distance that produces 8x10" print. And as you said there will be quite heavy amount of stray light around so fogging will be also an issue.

Good luck! Please come back with the results and experiences you got from this.

wiltw · Oct 27, 2021

vedostuu said:
That will be hassle for sure. Also the exposure time will be crazy short from a distance that produces 8x10" print. And as you said there will be quite heavy amount of stray light around so fogging will be also an issue.

Good luck! Please come back with the results and experiences you got from this.

Holding a ND filter in front of the projector lens would help prolong exposure times, although it might add some tint to the projected image (just like on camera lens)

Matix852 · May 16, 2022

I had the same question about using a digital projector for printing in a darkroom. How did your experience go?

AgX · May 16, 2022

radiant said:
And as you said there will be quite heavy amount of stray light around so fogging will be also an issue.

What stray light? Where does it originate from?

Chan Tran · May 16, 2022

You use a lot of digital already why not just print them with inkjet? or you can send the file to a printer that can print on RA-4 paper.

Oggepogge · May 22, 2023

What software gives inverted digital images so they can be printed on fuji crystal supreme with a 4k projector?

koraks · May 22, 2023

Anything that will allow curve manipulations. Photoshop, Gimp, probably current versions of MS Paint even, and hundreds of other tools.

Working out a compensation curve so the print ends up in the correct colors will be the tricky bit. Inverting it is just one of the steps and not a problematic one.

Mike Crawford · May 22, 2023

inkjet negatives can be very good but you definitely need to get a good understanding of how the curves work for the output. In the UK Pictorico is not readily available, but it is far better than the alternatives that are easy to get. Platinum printing friends import Pictorico from the US. For silver gelatin, the negative needs to be a lot softer looking than you would expect, compared to a normal negative, but without plotting conversion curves for the inkjet film and the process used, it will always be a bit hit and miss.

Have you considered getting negatives from your files outputted onto conventional b&w film? Am sure there are places in the US who can do it economically (and also expensively), but you could always try this company in the UK. I’ve used him for making 5x4 negs, but if you are not printing too big a smaller neg may be fine. digitalslides.co.uk

in dollars, prices are about:
35mm. $4
120 $5.40
5X4 $19

EDIT: Sorry, didn’t realise this was a thread from two years ago!

Oggepogge · May 23, 2023

would be nice if you could in some way mathematically calculate the colors and contrast and the software does that for you. Kinda like Negative lab pro.

koraks · May 23, 2023

If you use something like an Xrite i1Pro, you could actually construct an ICC profile that will allow you to work in almost a WYSIWYG fashion, including soft proofing.

Oggepogge · Jun 20, 2023

I bought Fujicolor Crystal Archive Supreme Paper in roll and am planning to cut it up and make a darkroom print from Negatives. I also wanted to enlarge the slide film from my optical setup but you need a very low contrast black and white paper developer and you to preflash. It is a lot of trouble and I might try it in the future. It would be easier to print slide film or any digital file if I could use a 1080p or 4k projector and take an image into for example photoshop and get a conversion that I project on paper.
It be nice if you could take fujis rgb laser profile and use that some way. I have no idea how to find the right profile and add it on top of the images or even if it is possible.

koraks · Jun 20, 2023

I think you need to make your own profile really. The Fuji profiles are specific to the equipment they use, including relative strength of the R, G and B lasers or LEDs.

Giving it a go with darkroom negatives first sounds like a great idea!

Silver gelatin print using digital projector?

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