Space-saving for the small camera workshop: Multimeter and oscilloscope in one device

[Andreas Thaler]

Wherever current flows, you have to be able to measure it; that's part of repairing electronically controlled cameras.

Voltage and resistance are the most commonly measured quantities for direct current, as found in camera circuits. Continuity also provides information as to whether, for example, a contact is conducting or blocking current. This is what a multimeter does.

If there are voltages that change over time, such as square-wave signals in digital circuits, you need an oscilloscope to make the voltage changes visible.

The device shown can do both and is also small and handy. Ideal for a small camera workshop where space is at a premium.

Today I tested the oscilloscope part with the frequency generator shown above in the picture.

Of the 1000 functions, I only need one for my purposes: the automatic display of signals as they are present at test points in the circuits. By comparing this with a reference, you can determine whether this part of the circuit is functioning correctly.

The device allows measurements in the low-frequency and high-frequency range up to 20 MHz to be performed on two channels. Sufficient for my 1980s SLRs.

«PeakTech® P 1205» 20 MHz / 2 CH, 100 MS / s handheld oscilloscope | P 1205

The PeakTech 1205 is a combination out of a digital storage oscilloscope with two channels via BNC sockets and 20 MHz bandwidth and a digital multimeter with 4mm safety sockets for measurements of direct and alternating voltage, direct and alternating cu…

www.peaktech.de

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

You may find the 20MHz bandwidth to be a bit of a limitation, or maybe not. The 600 Euro ($654) price is outrageous.

Camera circuits in film cameras aren't high speed, and 20MHz may be adequate. In general, 100MHz is considered the lowest bandwidth for an oscilloscope. With the low prices for 'pocket' oscilloscopes there isn't much reason to get a slow one.

A quick perusal of Amazon USA shows a $90 50MHz general purpose scope/DVM/signal generator https://www.amazon.com/Handheld-Osc...&keywords=oscilloscope&qid=1742413564&sr=8-16 (picked at random, I'm not making a recommendation for this model).

I do have a $100 FNRSI (?) "100MHz" that delivers an honest 80MHz. OK for non-critical monitoring / troubleshooting. A 'scope with honest knobs is a lot more usable, however.

You can find even cheaper if you are willing to go to Alibaba & Co.

 

[koraks]

You can find even cheaper if you are willing to go to Alibaba & Co.

Quite so. For instance, this is a very decent amateur/entry-level scope that costs a fraction of the price (ca. €150) of the integrated device in the OP: https://www.hantek.com/products/detail/17182
It's also very compact. Add another €20 for a basic but entirely usable DMM and you've got far better performance and overall usability.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

You may find the 20MHz bandwidth to be a bit of a limitation, or maybe not. The 600 Euro ($654) price is outrageous.

Camera circuits in film cameras aren't high speed, and 20MHz may be adequate. In general, 100MHz is considered the lowest bandwidth for an oscilloscope. With the low prices for 'pocket' oscilloscopes there isn't much reason to get a slow one.

A quick perusal of Amazon USA shows a $90 50MHz general purpose scope/DVM/signal generator https://www.amazon.com/Handheld-Osc...&keywords=oscilloscope&qid=1742413564&sr=8-16 (picked at random, I'm not making a recommendation for this model).

I do have a $100 FNRSI (?) "100MHz" that delivers an honest 80MHz. OK for non-critical monitoring / troubleshooting. A 'scope with honest knobs is a lot more usable, however.

You can find even cheaper if you are willing to go to Alibaba & Co.

I chose this device because it is a branded product and I am already satisfied with the manufacturer, because I purchased it precisely for my intended purpose and I don't believe in purchasing devices whose functionality I don't use.

 

[koraks]

Hey, if you're happy, that's what counts. To anyone in the market for a scope and/or a DMM, I would personally not recommend the 2-in-1 solution. It's a compromise both ways.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Quite so. For instance, this is a very decent amateur/entry-level scope that costs a fraction of the price (ca. €150) of the integrated device in the OP: https://www.hantek.com/products/detail/17182
It's also very compact. Add another €20 for a basic but entirely usable DMM and you've got far better performance and overall usability.

This thread will be long ...

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Hey, if you're happy, that's what counts. To anyone in the market for a scope and/or a DMM, I would personally not recommend the 2-in-1 solution. It's a compromise both ways.

You can only make a meaningful recommendation if you know the requirements. And mine is already in the title.

I'm not going to put a GHz device with four inputs on my desk if I don't need it. And next to it, a multimeter that can do even more.

Incidentally, I also work with a simple lab power supply that I don't even want to test with the oscilloscope. But for what I'm doing with the solenoids, it's overkill.

As long as you don't turn off your brain when buying, you can't go wrong.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

You can find even cheaper if you are willing to go to Alibaba & Co.

Never

 

[Andreas Thaler]

I have something else for you that will outrage you.

@ic-racer already knows the Metrahit below, but not the Metraport top right

And why there's an Amprobe here when I can also use the Metrahit to measure temperature remains a mystery.

Everything is way overpriced compared to China. But if you pick it up, you'll know where the money goes.

 

[Chan Tran]

I knew of the Metraport for many years. I love to have one of those but living in the USA those are rare.

 

[Chan Tran]

Never

So where do they make the Peaktech scope?

 

[koraks]

But if you pick it up, you'll know where the money goes.

Yup. To China and to somewhere else. Whereas if you buy it from China, it just goes to China.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

As long as the quality control meets German standards, I shouldn't care where the devices are manufactured.

I'm happy with my iPhone, too, and it's not made in the USA. We differentiate between quality products and junk.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

I knew of the Metraport for many years. I love to have one of those but living in the USA those are rare.

And if extra tariffs are added, they will become even rarer.

 

[Chan Tran]

As long as the quality control meets German standards, I shouldn't care where the devices are manufactured.

I'm happy with my iPhone, too, and it's not made in the USA. We differentiate between quality products and junk.

I only know the PeakTech Ossiloscope from your pictures but it does look like a Chinese design and Chinese made. Unlike your Gossen stuff.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Because my oscilloscope's bandwidth was mentioned (20 MHz):

My patients go up to a maximum of 8 MHz (Nikon F4 from 1988); the Minolta 9000 and 7000, as well as the Canon T90 and Minolta X-700, are below that. The Canon A series is probably in the kilohertz range. That's the CPU's clock frequency.

I don't work on newer - and faster - SLRs.

More bandwidth means higher costs and if it is not used, it is a waste of money.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

I only know the PeakTech Ossiloscope from your pictures but it does look like a Chinese design and Chinese made. Unlike your Gossen stuff.

You mean because of the font on the LCD?

 

[Chan Tran]

You mean because of the font on the LCD?

It's the color scheme that gives me that impression. Also the simulated analog display too.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Amazing advances in technology. 40 years ago when I was in business, I bought a Tectronics portable ocilloscope for around US$2,000 which was a lot of money in those days before inflation. It weighed about 15 pounds, and was about a foot cubed. A few years later, I bought one of those original IBM portable computers, it's cost about the same and about the same size.

 

[4season]

I own a Rigol DSO but to date have never encountered any film camera repairs which needed it.

On the other hand, I'm tempted to get this, as I think it would prove very useful in camera repairs and general SMD work:

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Amazing advances in technology. 40 years ago when I was in business, I bought a Tectronics portable ocilloscope for around US$2,000 which was a lot of money in those days before inflation. It weighed about 15 pounds, and was about a foot cubed.

There were still plenty of buttons, switches, and lights.

A gem for the apartment!

 

[Andreas Thaler]

I own a Rigol DSO but to date have never encountered any film camera repairs which needed it.

I use my scope according to troubleshooting instructions - for example if a sine wave is present, yes or no. Or recently, to determine whether an LCD is being driven.

Once you get used to it, it's also good for quick DC voltage measurements.

I'm just glad that SLRs rarely have AC voltages, and I don't have to analyze voltage curves in detail, like in audio projects, for example.

 

[Bill Burk]

Amazing advances in technology. 40 years ago when I was in business, I bought a Tectronics portable ocilloscope for around US$2,000 which was a lot of money in those days before inflation. It weighed about 15 pounds, and was about a foot cubed. A few years later, I bought one of those original IBM portable computers, it's cost about the same and about the same size.

I used to dig in the trash at Tektronics and Xerox. I'd be bringing home all kinds of fun mirrors and circuits that smell like coffee. I was beside myself when they threw away a whole Xerox machine and I couldn't find a way to get it.

 

[reddesert]

I have a small (hand-size) digital storage oscilloscope that I built from a kit. It was a JYE Tech DSO150 and cost around $20-30. I have used Tektronix oscilloscopes and the like in teaching labs, but the mini scope gives all that I needed for many projects, as long as only a single input channel is needed. I wrote up a build report on it on the madbeanpedals forum (music effect pedals), but I think the photos have disappeared.

Anyway, the crux of using an oscilloscope is not the specifications of the oscilloscope, especially at camera or audio frequencies. It's understanding how to trigger it successfully on the signal of interest, and how to interpret the waveforms.

 

[Nimbus62]

I always use a digital oscilloscope to check and adjust Minolta XM/XK body, expecially to check time lag between shutter start and curtain opennning, charg time of the cap, magnet control signal.
Why oscilloscope because they are analog camera.
As I have other electronic activities use Lecroy 500 Mhz scope / 4 channel with Math capability.
Very interesting to do statistics and then able to isolate bad cycle that can occured during shutter control ( I use memory capability and compare average with last shutter cycle).
During test I use 1 channel to trigger, 2 or 3 channels depending of the problem I have to analyse.
It is not necessary but very comfortable and time saving.

I use a lot High Z milivolmeter/Multimeter for analog camera (1970) necessary to adjust light cells.

Working on digital, ex Nikon Falsh protocol, I use logic analyser and protocol analyser (own design). Logic analyser are dedicated for digital. Also useful when you have one.
This kind of equipment is ncessary for hardware and software design. Used for maintenance, it is also useful to compare strandard cycle (memory) with real cycle. One acquisition and you see the real life.
It is mainly a problem related to "methodology". As usual, you have a lot of way to discover the problem and fix it. One is to change parts/components until you obtain a good result.... Could take time because with old camera there is not only one problem but many.... Then some tools are needed.

The discussion have no limit: its depend of the budget, skills, methodology, etc....

Andreas start introducing the oscilloscope. (for me) It is necessary to check quickly and validate functionnality. Basic or advance it depend of your skills, methodology. Long discussion.