Are these stupid tariffs going to affect film and paper prices??? that would really suck for analog!!
please chime in!!!!!
please chime in!!!!!
Tariffs and Film and Paper prices
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Most Kodak films are made in the USA.
I expect so.... Fuji (Japan), Ilford (U.K.), Foma (CZ), & various films made in China....
OP
OP
Greg we need made in Canada!!!!
Those products would be hit by tariffs too.....
Tariffs are on specific products and material, not on everything made in, or coming from the US.
Moreover, here in Canada, the Prime minister hinted that he might not hit the US with retaliatory tariffs that would end up costing the Canadian consumer.
As far as the US is concerned, if DT's tariffs are more or less across the board, then yes, film and paper by European manufacturers will see a price increase.
This would hit Canadians for those products that don't have a dedicated Canadian distributor, i.e., whose distribution transits through the US.
Moreover, here in Canada, the Prime minister hinted that he might not hit the US with retaliatory tariffs that would end up costing the Canadian consumer.
As far as the US is concerned, if DT's tariffs are more or less across the board, then yes, film and paper by European manufacturers will see a price increase.
This would hit Canadians for those products that don't have a dedicated Canadian distributor, i.e., whose distribution transits through the US.
Everything is going to be OK. We've already been through the most inflationary period in my 68 year life. And that's a fact. I'm confident that an equilibrium is at hand on trade deficits and we'll all be better off for it in the long term. Look at it this way... photographic paper prices are presently prohibitive to a paralyzing degree. The only possible direction in that can only be an improvement at this juncture.
"stupid tariffs" that is political statement. I you can't understand topic you should not be talking about it
I too spotted a "political" inference early on, and am sure this thread is on the moderators' radar, but I did see an interesting post about Canada starting t make their own supplies. To my knowledge, there are no Canadian photographic consumable supplies, such as paper or film. Imagine if Canada rolled up it's shirt sleeves and got busy making photographic paper. I bet it would be excellent quality. I'm sure as a US citizen I'd give it a try and would probably like it.
I doubt that every component Kodak uses in film production is made in USA, so production price WILL go up. Good news is that Kodak film price is really not dictated by production costs, but by Alaris markup.
Consumers outside USA living in countries that will employ retaliatory tariffs will, of course, effectively pay both tariffs (USA and domestic).
Consumers outside USA living in countries that will employ retaliatory tariffs will, of course, effectively pay both tariffs (USA and domestic).
MattKing
Moderator
I've changed the thread title to something more specific. If the posts stay relevant to the title in its more specific form, the thread may very well survive.
Theoretically not, because importation rules generally provide for goods being exempt from tariffs (or for refunds of duties paid) when they are directly re-exported.
And tariffs are usually based on country of origin, not country from whence the import happens.
Practically speaking though, I expect that the Canadian market is so small that the complexity of the "pass through while under customs bond" process probably is usually avoided, and the higher costs just endured.
The list of proposed retaliatory Canadian tariffs I have seen may not turn out to be what happens. I couldn't see any photographic film or paper or chemicals on it, but I did see tripods.
Theoretically not, because importation rules generally provide for goods being exempt from tariffs (or for refunds of duties paid) when they are directly re-exported.
And tariffs are usually based on country of origin, not country from whence the import happens.
Practically speaking though, I expect that the Canadian market is so small that the complexity of the "pass through while under customs bond" process probably is usually avoided, and the higher costs just endured.
The list of proposed retaliatory Canadian tariffs I have seen may not turn out to be what happens. I couldn't see any photographic film or paper or chemicals on it, but I did see tripods.
Andrew O'Neill
Moderator
Well us moderators are photographers, too! Yes, we are keeping an eye on this thread but I don't see why it cannot be discussed here without turning into a slagging match... Then appropriate action will be taken.
Canadian supplier of Ilford products is Amplis. I don't think Canada tariffs it... How could they, when we don't make film?
MattKing
Moderator
The end price is very sensitive to production costs.
As well as the very substantial costs of distribution.
All of which will be at the very least disrupted as trade is disrupted.
MattKing
Moderator
Tariffs rarely have any relation to whether domestic manufacturing exists. Tariffs are mostly designed to raise revenue and affect markets. For those reasons, a targeted Canadian tariff hike is unlikely, because the markets and the resulting revenue are relatively tiny.
If something like that happens, it would be more likely to be a result of more general tariffs, imposed to catch Eastman Kodak's larger business supporting commercial printing and the other type of "films" - the non-photographic ones.
It's a tiny market. The investment makes no sense. There's evidently re-shoring of manufacturing going on or being planned presently, but for more strategic/sensible categories. Photographic paper isn't really a relevant priority.
No, but I think presently they do contribute to shifts in decision-making. And that's about as political as I'm going to make this!
You got it. That is to say, the 'stupid' qualification makes it borderline political. We can and generally will let things slip to a certain degree; in this case, it's just an utterance of personal frustration about the impact on photographic supply (that's how I read it in any case) as opposed to a statement that's intended to be primarily political in nature. Nuances like these we do take into consideration. Also, tariffs have been discussed several times already in the recent past elsewhere on the forum. We generally leave such discussion to take its course as long as it doesn't get very political. It's not a taboo topic; just one that's a little tricky to navigate.
This, as a general statement, is false. Some are, some are not. Some are more, some are less.
And as I said before, a LOT of the Kodak's film price is pocketed by Alaris. If the market will not bear the price increase in the whole amount of the tariffs, there is a good possibility that Alaris will in fact absorb some of the price increase in the non-US markets.
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I see this thread as being about photographic film and paper availability and price.
I think the "stupid" refers to the fact that it's the citizens of the country imposing the tariffs that actually pay the tariffs. This would mean, for example, that if the US imposes general tariffs on all imports from the UK or the EU, Americans will indeed pay more for Ilford, Adox or Foma products.
MattKing
Moderator
In this case, I have reliable information that indicates that it is generally true. Eastman Kodak has been struggling with major increases in their input costs, along with availability issues, and each such factor is something that management's policies require them to incorporate in their price to Kodak Alaris.
MattKing
Moderator
Everything that goes into making it is almost certainly imported by all the entities doing that manufacture. So tariffs affect the costs - they increase them.
In turn, as most of the end product is exported - Ilford/Harman for one sell most of their product in the USA - every exported item may also have its retail cost increased by the tariffs imposed by the importing nation.
Indirectly, if the retail sales decrease as a result of the higher retail prices made necessary by imposed tariffs, than any benefits flowing from economies of scale also are reduced, resulting in additional per unit costs.
Exactly...... "The only possible direction in that can only be an improvement at this juncture."...... F4 is overly optimistic IMO based on historic info on paper prices.
My post was merely a response to the very first post. Your question should be addressed to that person. There may very well be an adjustment to trade tariffs all across the board to things having nothing to do with photo supplies other than in the broadest sense. The price of widgets and the price of flanges are 2 entirely unrelated markets, other that the fact hey both contribute to the rise and fall of tides, which in turn raises or lowers all ships. Who knows, maybe some small group of Canadians will get mad at the tariff talk and set up a 36 inch wide film coating and slitting line in a vacant rental building of modest size and make film and paper that rivals Kodak with their huge 15 foot wide coating machines. But what do I know? Apparently there's anger out there or this thread would not have been started. Anger can be a useful motivator. One thing's for sure. I've resorted to Xray film and coating cyanotype paper to escape the present prices on the good stuff.
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