The return of the Syrup: HC-110 in the water-free version manufactured again

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ADOX Fotoimpex

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Thick, juicy, honey-yellow - and everlasting - the “Original Syrup” is coming to market under the ADOX HC-110 Professional name, offering the quality of a German-made classical HC-110 formula.
Manufacturing the original HC-110 “syrup” is complex due to its thick consistency, which requires extra time for pumping and filtering. Therefore, the ADOX product is more expensive than the alternatively available thinner variant - as an upside, boasting a basically infinite shelf life.
The ADOX HC-110 Professional offers all the qualities of the original Kodak recipe, including the possibility to optimise contrast through various dilutions, as described, for example, in Bruce Barnbaum's book The Art of Photography, Chapter 9, pages 166–170.
 

Alan Johnson

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The traditional syrupy long lasting water-free version got its sulfite from diethanaloamine sulfite CAS 63149 47 3
The PhotoSystems and various other sources versions get their sulfite from potassium sulfite which requires water to dissolve it.
The chemical composition of the Adox syrupy version seems likely to be disclosed soon (Jan 2025).
 
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DREW WILEY

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That's great news. I hope it becomes available in the US.
 

Alan Johnson

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Adox has beautiful safety data sheets available for download, shows makeup.

Thanks, dated yesterday:

Unlike the Kodak HC-110 syrup msds of 2016 there is no mention of sulfur dioxide :

I am not familiar with the present rules of disclosure for msds so cannot comment re the sulfur dioxide.
 

Ben Hutcherson

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Small pet peeve but still something worth mentioning-no product made in 2025 or 2016 should have an "MSDS." MSDS were being phased out when I first started studying chemistry 20 years ago! I think around 2010 or so was when the MSDS more or less became a thing of the past. Anything new(or with a revised sheet) made since then should have an "SDS."

With that said, the claimed amount of SO2 in 2016 revision seems, well, really out of place. The bottle I have of the old stuff was one I bought in 2018 or so, and I'd guess the 2016 SDS would apply. The 2016 SDS tells us a specific gravity of 1.24. 20mL of syrup(roughly the amount I will often use when mixing working HC110 solutions), at 15% SO2 by weight, would contain 3.72g SO2 gas, a lot of which would probably be released when dissolving in water. That would turn into ~1.5L of gas, something you'd certainly notice bubbling out when mixing(I've never seen HC110 bubble when mix) and more importantly if your darkroom was not well ventilated that would at best smell so bad you wouldn't be able to stand being in there, or at worst would bring the concentration in the air up so high you WOULDN'T be able to smell it(our noses are funny like that) but it would be deadly pretty quickly.

More than likely, if I had to guess, a lot of SO2 gets added to syrup at some point or another and one of the other ingredients gets formed in situ. I don't see any sulfites listed in either SDS, but I'd be shocked if there's not at least some present, and SO2 can be used to prepare sulfites.

That's just my best guess, but suspect that KA SDS was not entirely accurate as to what is actually present in the final product. Remember too that SDSs are not intended for us to be able to reverse engineer a product, and in fact I've been known to preach to students I've mentored who start referencing them that, for a variety of reasons, they're actually a pretty poor source of information for a lot of chemistry uses. The SDS is intended to be a reference document for poeple all along the supply chain, for first responders who might have to deal with the substances in...less than ideal conditions, and as a quick, standardized reference for end users to know how to not hurt or kill themselves with a product.

To that end, most developers, and other photo chemicals for that matter, have the ability to release a not insigificant amount of SO2 if handled wrongly. Fixer can get pretty stinky if your stop bath is too acidic, for example(which is why for what I'm using now I spent some time buffering it). The 2016 K-A SDS may well reflect that.
 

MattKing

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There was a period of time when Kodak Alaris was contracting for different versions of HC-110, depending on the market that it was being traded into. The EU destined syrupy version was still being made in the EU, while the other version was being made in the USA.
As the extreme longevity of the older, more syrupy version was never actually listed by "Kodak" as a product feature, I doubt that it was ever a design goal.
 

koraks

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More than likely, if I had to guess, a lot of SO2 gets added to syrup at some point or another and one of the other ingredients gets formed in situ. I don't see any sulfites listed in either SDS, but I'd be shocked if there's not at least some present, and SO2 can be used to prepare sulfites.

AFAIK the SO2 is indeed added to form an adduct with DEA (see e.g. here https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-hc-110-formula.169322/post-2668438). AFAIK there's no free or dissolved SO2 as such in HC110 syrup. I've seen SDS's that list constituents as well as SDS's that list ingredients used in manufacture. In this case, the difference is pertinent and should be kept in mind when interpreting an SDS.
 

RalphLambrecht

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View attachment 389001
Thick, juicy, honey-yellow - and everlasting - the “Original Syrup” is coming to market under the ADOX HC-110 Professional name, offering the quality of a German-made classical HC-110 formula.
Manufacturing the original HC-110 “syrup” is complex due to its thick consistency, which requires extra time for pumping and filtering. Therefore, the ADOX product is more expensive than the alternatively available thinner variant - as an upside, boasting a basically infinite shelf life.
The ADOX HC-110 Professional offers all the qualities of the original Kodak recipe, including the possibility to optimise contrast through various dilutions, as described, for example, in Bruce Barnbaum's book The Art of Photography, Chapter 9, pages 166–170.

I never used it, but all the news and talk got me interested. I also read that the results are very similar to D6, which iscurrently my go-to developer.
 

Donald Qualls

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Alan Johnson

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Ian Grant

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IIRC, this was in the 1970s version of the Kodak product.

May have been later than that, but yes. I can't remember when MSDS information became mandatory, late 1980s or very early 1990s here in the UK. When I ran a lab our chemical supplier had to issue an MSDS sheet for every new chemical we bought.


Not the same as the syrup Adox HC-110.

There was (is) a version apparently very similar to the (believed) water based version sold in the US since about 2019 which contains potassium sulfite.

The wrong MSDS was listed for the syrup HC-110 version to start with, the change is quite recent.

Ian
 

loccdor

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Did not see that coming, a welcome addition to the lineup.
 

Alan Johnson

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The wrong MSDS was listed for the syrup HC-110 version to start with, the change is quite recent.

Ian
It's not clear whose syrup version you refer to. The Kodak version did change over the years.

Anyhow as I said. this appears to be the new Adox syrup version:

As Adox generally mention sulfite when it is contained in one of their developer products this does suggest that the new Adox Syrup may be sulfite free.
 

Donald Qualls

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the new Adox Syrup may be sulfite free

Which raises an interesting question as to what antioxidant/preservative is in the syrup if not sulfite...
 
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