Use of cordless screwdrivers in the repair of photographic equipment

DREW WILEY · Dec 13, 2024

With anything needing higher torque, you need to be especially careful your bits fit correctly. Besides sizing (0,1,2,3,4 in the case of Phillips), not all cross-driven screws are in fact Phillips. Frearson and Posidrive indentations might look similar, but aren't the same at all. Then there's also the rarer possibility of something proprietary. The correct bit should fit completely snug.

Thanks a lot for that improvised gadget flick, 4season. What is their first demonstration project: How to make a prosthetic hand to replace the one you just cut off? Grinders are very high RPM devices. Jerry-rigging them with saw blades is insanity. That's one of the things I hate about some of these DIY videos. It proves that Neanderthals DID have bigger brains than many people today!

Once I was handed a long wavy prototype generic Sawzall blade that was so wobbly that I told them it wouldn't be good for anything except carving a turkey. The mfg rep listened carefully; then at their own factory Thanksgiving party a couple months later, that's exactly what they did with it !

Andreas Thaler · Dec 13, 2024

Light Capture said:
Completely agree about Nikon bayonet screws. Some of them are really bad. Some heating and well fitting screwdriver usually does the job but there is a stuck one more often than most of the others (ends with a screw drilled out).

Here I had over-tightened a screw head profile on a Nikkor 105/2.5 Ai. No method to remove the screw helped.

Drilling and unscrewing were not in my repertoire at the time, but Michael @forest bagger, a professional with a lot of experience in repairing Nikkor lenses, suspected that some Nikkor bayonets might have titanium screws. That makes it difficult.

Andreas Thaler · Dec 13, 2024

4season said:
No wonder that some factories can operate so efficiently:

Wasn't the Phillips screw designed precisely for this machine assembly technique?

If too much torque is applied, the bit slips out of the screw head profile without damaging it.

Light Capture · Dec 13, 2024

Andreas Thaler said:
View attachment 385402

Here I had over-tightened a screw head profile on a Nikkor 105/2.5 Ai. No method to remove the screw helped.

Drilling and unscrewing were not in my repertoire at the time, but Michael @forest bagger, a professional with a lot of experience in repairing Nikkor lenses, suspected that some Nikkor bayonets might have titanium screws. That makes it difficult.

That's the exact lens I had an issue with one screw. They're very soft. 5 minutes with hand held pin vise with drill chuck removed the head. Once the head was out it was easy to remove with the pliers.

There are very nice watchmaker's screw extractors like Bergeon 30209. They're too small for 99% of work on cameras. The issue is that there are very few solutions for extracting screws in sizes smaller than M4.
I don't have any reasonable extractors for screws in M1.2 - M2.5 range. In most cases they're easily heated since they're small.

DREW WILEY · Dec 13, 2024

Andreas - The reason Phillips screws are no longer used in numerous applications is because the bit does tend to slip and strip its fit in the process. It's not supposed to kick out. Over-tightening should be controlled in a different manner. Of course, a lot of this is related to the quality of screws and their alloys involved, along with the quality of the driver bits themselves. But that's why modifications like Posidrive and square drive arose, not to mention much more secure but slower inserting options like multi-point star drive inserts.

Sirius Glass · Dec 13, 2024

Come to think of it, all my screw drivers are cordless, but then one must consider that they all lack the battery power that the OP refers to.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 14, 2024

A cordless screwdriver, as shown, is far too powerful for sensitive photographic equipment. Your hands give you more control over the tool screwdriver, and don't put the item to be repaired in danger of damage.

Andreas Thaler · Dec 14, 2024

Light Capture said:
I don't have any reasonable extractors for screws in M1.2 - M2.5 range. In most cases they're easily heated since they're small.

I have had success with these screw extractors from time to time, in conjunction with cobalt drills:

Loosen stubborn screws: Boa Micro Grabit Extractors

Screws that cannot be loosened and whose screw head is damaged by attempts to unscrew it, so that nothing works anymore: every craftsman's nightmare. When dismantling cameras and lenses, it often happens that a screw does not want to come out. Be it rust or a thread being fixed with glue - the...

www.photrio.com

The problem is that although the drills work, they do not drill deep enough into the screw heads. Then the bit does not grip.

Andreas Thaler · Dec 14, 2024

Sirius Glass said:
Come to think of it, all my screw drivers are cordless, but then one must consider that they all lack the battery power that the OP refers to.

DREW WILEY said:
Andreas - The reason Phillips screws are no longer used in numerous applications is because the bit does tend to slip and strip its fit in the process. It's not supposed to kick out. Over-tightening should be controlled in a different manner. Of course, a lot of this is related to the quality of screws and their alloys involved, along with the quality of the driver bits themselves. But that's why modifications like Posidrive and square drive arose, not to mention much more secure but slower inserting options like multi-point star drive inserts.

Thank you!

Andreas Thaler · Dec 14, 2024

RalphLambrecht said:
A cordless screwdriver, as shown, is far too powerful for sensitive photographic equipment. Your hands give you more control over the tool screwdriver, and don't put the item to be repaired in danger of damage.

I agree when it comes to screwing in screws with a cordless screwdriver. But even that works very well with my little Bosch, as the torque and speed can be finely adjusted.

If desired, a clutch ensures that the bit does not overtighten the screw. But I don't want to rely on that.

Andreas Thaler · Dec 14, 2024

Diamond burrs, here from Dremel, and the Nejisaurus pliers for gripping the screw residue are currently my last resort when I cannot loosen a screw. This allows you to work in a controlled but destructive manner.

PZ-57 | ENGINEER INC.-Global

How to remove stripped and damaged screws? 5-inch Screw Removal Pliers for electronic components, PCB, mobile phone, game console, etc. 120mm small-sized body and ESD-safe handles. PZ-57 NEJI-SAURUS

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Andreas Thaler · Dec 14, 2024

Richard Haw has good tips for repair work, including his advice on working with bayonet screws in Nikkors:

Repair Tools & Fundamentals

Lens & Camera Repair Fundamentals: These were made in order to show people what are the important tools and practices for repairing cameras and lenses. If you are new to this, I advise you read…

richardhaw.com

Repair: Nikon Bayonet Screws (Video)

Hello, Everybody! Spring is here! It is definitely getting warmer and while that is definitely good news, the bad news is hay fever is also rampant! I suffer from it just like many people living he…

richardhaw.com

Andreas Thaler · Dec 14, 2024

Now the question is where you can meaningfully use such a small cordless screwdriver. Although it does the job of removing screws, it is heavy to hold.

I can see one use for it here, for example. It takes time until all the screws are removed with the screwdriver and it is monotonous work. The cordless screwdriver does it quickly.

Dissection Minolta NP-90M battery pack for Minolta (Maxxum) 9000; MD-90, BP-90M

The Minolta (Maxxum) 9000 comes with the Motor Drive MD-90 as an accessory, which can optionally be operated with the rechargeable NP-90M battery pack. This is a high-quality part that is electronically connected to the motor drive and provides a portrait format shutter release. The NP-90M...

www.photrio.com

forest bagger · Dec 14, 2024

Light Capture said:
That's the exact lens I had an issue with one screw. They're very soft.

The former Non-AI and AI Nikkor lenses had bayonet screws made of a non-magnetic metal that was relatively soft.
These screws were screwed in at the factory while adding some kind of adhesive to the screw shaft.
Over time, this adhesive often hardened to such an extent that the screw shaft became almost inseparably bonded to the thread in the aluminum alloy.

The later AI- and AI-S Nikkor lenses used a magnetic metal for the screws that are a bit harder but have the same problem with hardened adhesive...

DaveNJ · Dec 14, 2024

Andreas Thaler said:
View attachment 385402

Here I had over-tightened a screw head profile on a Nikkor 105/2.5 Ai. No method to remove the screw helped.

Drilling and unscrewing were not in my repertoire at the time, but Michael @forest bagger, a professional with a lot of experience in repairing Nikkor lenses, suspected that some Nikkor bayonets might have titanium screws. That makes it difficult.

JIS screws?

I'm struggling right now with this on a Canon FD 50/1.4 SSC mount. I have the correct JIS screwdriver, tried a soldering iron to get it hot, tried acetone but 2 of 3 won't budge. The one that came out shows no signs of loctite.

Andreas Thaler · Dec 14, 2024

DaveNJ said:
JIS screws?

I'm struggling right now with this on a Canon FD 50/1.4 SSC mount. I have the correct JIS screwdriver, tried a soldering iron to get it hot, tried acetone but 2 of 3 won't budge. The one that came out shows no signs of loctite.

Yes, JIS, correct.

You could also try putting a small drop of WD-40 or similar on the thread for a few hours.

If there is no glue, this might help.

DaveNJ · Dec 14, 2024

Andreas Thaler said:
Yes, JIS, correct.

You could also try putting a small drop of WD-40 or similar on the thread for a few hours.

If there is no glue, this might help.

Thank you. I'll have to give that a shot.

Sirius Glass · Dec 14, 2024

DREW WILEY said:
Andreas - The reason Phillips screws are no longer used in numerous applications is because the bit does tend to slip and strip its fit in the process. It's not supposed to kick out. Over-tightening should be controlled in a different manner. Of course, a lot of this is related to the quality of screws and their alloys involved, along with the quality of the driver bits themselves. But that's why modifications like Posidrive and square drive arose, not to mention much more secure but slower inserting options like multi-point star drive inserts.

Thank you. I have noticed recently that Phillips screws slip much more often then flathead or other screw heads and wondered why.

Andreas Thaler · Dec 14, 2024

Sirius Glass said:
Thank you. I have noticed recently that Phillips screws slip much more often then flathead or other screw heads and wondered why.

The flanks of the Phillips cross-head screws taper off towards the tip. The conical form facilitates inserting the tip of the screwdriver with the power-operated screwdrivers. In addition, an axial force is generated during tightening which pushes the screwdriver out of the screw. Originally, this effect was intentionally used as torque delimitation. But over time, it proved to be a disadvantage of the Phillips screws.

Phillips and Pozidriv cross-head screws – explained in simple terms – PB Swiss Tools

In the first half of the twentieth century, the slotted screws proved to be increasingly problematic. The industrialization brought about more and more power-operated screwdrivers. Aligning the screwdriver to the slot in the screw took up too much time and laterally slipping off of the screw...

www.pbswisstools.com

DREW WILEY · Dec 14, 2024

There are actually slightly different varieties of Phillips tips themselves; but there is no sense going into that on a camera forum. But it is interesting to note, that when I was selling a large line of Euro cabinet hinges which included Posidrive screws, almost nobody bought the correct tips or hand screwdriver. They just used Phillips and kept complaining. Frankly, we were probably the only place around which even offered the correct Posidrive bits, unless one went to an online supply house like McMaster or dedicated Euro hardware wholesaler. Square drive was a modest improvement; then everything serious went star drive, even the automated drivers. Ordinary Phillips became pretty much restricted to common drywall work.

Anything sub-miniature should just go Allen-head hex instead unless rapid-pace automated assembly lines are involved.

Andreas Thaler · Dec 14, 2024

@DREW WILEY

Do you know how to reliably distinguish a JIS screwdriver from a Phillips, preferably at a glance?

DREW WILEY · Dec 14, 2024

JIS evidently has slightly sharper tips, but not fully pointed like Canadian Frearson. All my own miniature drivers are Euro Wiha. And even though we were one of the largest Makita industrial distributors in the county, as well as a contracted repair center, Makita never used JIS screws to my knowledge. In fact, many of their high end tools were made just outside Atlanta, and their own high-end bit manufacture facility was in Montana. JIS seems to be more of an electronics application. There is a lot of blurring of the lines in cross tips due to the junk mentality of so many consumer goods these days, mainly from China.

Before I retired, when my personal discount arrangement was still active, I made sure my own shop was well stocked with real-deal Austrian tips and bits. But I should check the specialty Japanese hand tool importer in town one of these days. They have a superb selection of high-end Japanese hand tools there, although much of what they formerly imported was actually for sake of sale at our own company a few blocks away instead - more of a symbiotic relationship rather than competitive.

Andreas Thaler · Dec 14, 2024

Thanks!

Andreas Thaler · Dec 14, 2024

Japan makes fine tools:

アネックスツール株式会社

ドライバー先端工具・作業工具・ピンセット&クラフトツールの三条市アネックスツール（株）

www.anextool.co.jp

VESSEL CO., INC

full range of information on product groups ranging from tightening tools such as drivers, bit sockets and air tools to anti-static products in the factory

www.vessel.co.jp

DREW WILEY · Dec 14, 2024

That Vessel selection is obviously oriented toward delicate moderate volume assembly, although they do have a few air tools which cross over into what here in the US is the domain of Sioux air tools - the last large power tools company which is both US made and US owned. All the remaining others with big plants here are foreign owned (Bosch and Makita), while the rest of the big brand names or are neither domestically owned nor domestically made anymore (DeWalt, Milwaukee, Porter Cable, etc). The same thing has happened to most of the hand tool companies, although. Of necessity, I ended up selling mostly German and Japanese hand tools, in addition to power tool lines like Fein, Festool, Bosch, and the pro and industrial grades of Makita, since high quality was our own niche. Klein pliers and much of Crescent is still US made; we also handled Knipex pliers (Spain).

Near the end of my own career tenure, Tooltechnic of Germany (the parent company of Festool) was developing extremely sensitive robotics based upon physiological studies of elephant trunks - they even had a small zoo of them at the German plant! Instead of nerves and muscles, there were complex networks of valve controlled low-pressure air lines. The object was to provide sophisticated robotics safe in direct proximity to human workers, with the tech industry specially in mind. Their prototype demonstration synthetic elephant trunk could even sort and pack eggs without breaking them.

Use of cordless screwdrivers in the repair of photographic equipment

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