Working with Batches of small RC Prints

[Luckless]

Splitting a topic off out of https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/rc-paper-wet-time.169308 where the focus was RC paper's wet time for a broader discussion on handling larger batches of smallish prints on RC paper.


I'm aiming to start my first real darkroom printing 'project' later this year that would require dozens of copies of a few images, and I'm on the fence with how best to process things. I'm current setup with a fairly makeshift home darkroom, and slowly tinkering with things while doing small test and experimental prints. So far my trial prints are going well, and I've not run into anything overly critical as far as problems go. Mainly the hold up is merely getting time to pull stuff out of storage, work, and then get everything cleaned up before the girlfriend begins complaining...

For my small 4x5 print project I am thinking that the logical process would be to do a large batch of exposures, then take my box of exposed sheets over for wet processing all in one go, rather than flipping back and forth between dry and wet work. Sounds sensible in my head, but I'm left wondering just how large of a batch it makes sense to push things with.

Dev tank time and agitation feel like they're the only real time critical points, while all the other stages seem like it isn't really going to matter how much I fudge their timings as long as I'm not forgetting them there for ages and had hit at least min-time for fix and wash. Am I setting myself up for more of a headache than I might be expecting with this idea? [Planning to use Ilford Multigrade RC Pearl with Ilford chemistry, so nothing that seems too outlandish or uncommon.]

As a discussion point, does anyone have any feedback or strategics that would be useful when handling mid to large batches of small prints on RC paper, with the aim of balancing time spent vs risk of material wastage?

 

[Oren Grad]

One possibility is to expose them all, then using a larger tray, process four prints at a time all the way through the wash. Assuming you're not toning and that you can muster the discipline to pay careful attention to what you're doing throughout this tediously repetitive task, you should be able to run at least 10 cycles / 40 prints in an hour. At least that way you'd have zero concern about excessive chemical or wet times, because everything about the process would be within specification.

 

[Mick Fagan]

Oren's advice is very good.

Something to think about though, is movement of the easel. I have done multiple prints many times, sometimes up to 100 - 300 prints from the same negative. You may be surprised at how easily the easel moves over time with repeated lifting and closing of your easel blades. If you are using a non bladed easel, you can also ever so slightly move the easel over time.

This certainly is a hazard where you are exposing 10, 20, 50 or more sheets at a time. I know as I have moved the easel a couple of millimetres, more than once. To stop this I tape the easel down to the base board of the enlarger. Nothing worse than finding that 10 prints out of fifty, are running off the edge. With small prints I usually find everything is super tight and a slight movement from a finger giving a small nudge every fifth exposure, is enough to stuff things up magnificently.

I do Oren's method, only I develop 6 prints at a time, dropping them face down into a 400 x 500mm (16x20") tray, starting my developing time from when the last one hits the water. I then turn them over and agitate until time is up, then remove them to a stop bath. From there I place them in the fixer bath and agitate intermittently as I start another 6 sheets in the developer bath. Once the second lot is developed and I'm putting them into the stop bath, I leave them there while I take the first lot out of the fixer into a wash bath. The second lot then are placed in the fixer bath and I then fix them and place the first lot into a second tray of water, intermittant agitation by hand while the second lot are being placed in the first wash bath.

This is about the quickest and easiest method for a combined speedy process with reliability and at the same time, eliminating stuff ups; mostly.

Mick.

 

[MattKing]

I do this regularly for the Postcard Exchange. I refer to it as gang printing.
Are your 4x5 prints bordered or borderless? If bordered, or if you can afford to sacrifice a small portion of the 4" dimension, one incredibly helpful technique is to cut 8" x 10" sheets into two sheets of 8" x 5" paper and print two 4" x 5" prints on each one.
To do that, you mask your easel, insert the paper in in one direction and do the first print, pull the paper out and rotate it 180 degrees (keeping the emulsion facing up), insert the paper into the easel at the other end and do the second print.
You need some sort of system of both remembering how many prints you have done on each sheet, and how many sheets you have exposed. For the latter, I use a clickable counter that you might find in the hands of staff at a sporting event or other large gathering where they need to keep track of the size of the crowds. Mine came from the disposal sale after the 2010 Winter Olympics.
I have a paper safe that has room for the top and bottom of an appropriately sized paper box. Unexposed paper goes in one, whereas exposed paper goes in the other.
It is important that you are reasonably consistent about how long the paper holds a latent image. If I intend to print and then develop 8 sheets/16 prints at a time, I estimate how long it takes to print those 16 prints - say 4 minutes as an example, and I try to make sure that no print hits the developer any earlier than two minutes after it is exposed. This includes test strips and test prints. All of this to avoid a situation where due to slightly different amounts of latent image degradation, the prints end up being inconsistent.
When I am gang developing multiple prints at a time, I prefer to use larger trays, and longer development times. If the recommended development times range between one and three minutes, I prefer to use three minutes, because the longer times minimize unintended variations in development time.
Normally I use tongs when printing. When gang printing, I use gloves and tongs, because you will from time to time need to get in there and separate two or more prints that want to stick together.
I make sure I have a separate running water tray or graduate that I can regularly use to rinse my gloved fingers. In my case, I can use the outfall from my second wash tray to supply that water.
When I actually develop the prints, I orient them in pairs, with each pair oriented back to back. The most I can handle at one time is generally 6 - 8 sheets ( 3 to 4 sheet pairs or 12 - 16 prints), but I prefer to work with 4 sheets (two pairs) at a time.
I work with a sweep second hand clock above my trays for timing purposes. It helps to always start at the same sweep second hand position.
By using a longer development time I feel I don't need to worry about slight differences arising from the fact that some prints go into the developer earlier than others, and some prints leave the developer for the stop bath earlier than others.
I try to agitate gently but continuously throughout the entire process - developer, stop bath, fixer. It is important to monitor the prints in the fixer, because they can and do try to stick to each other.
I use two running water trays, one above the other, to wash, with the upper (last) tray emptying into the lower (first) tray. I usually wash the prints for one minute in each tray. I monitor the prints there as well, again to make sure they remain separate in the wash.
The prints are taken from the final wash to a flat surface in my drying area. They are pressed, image side out, to the flat surface, blotted dry with old, lint free linen towels, and then placed into drying racks where they stand vertically and air dried.
My drying area is outside the darkroom, so taking the prints from the final wash to the drying area and dealing with them there builds in a pleasant break into the process.
And breaking the printing into manageable chunks also helps.
Hope this helps.

 

[MattKing]

My "drying area" flat surface, in operation

In that case, I was using a proofing easel that aids in putting four 4" x 5" prints on a single 8" x 10" sheet.
One of these Saunders units:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Saunders-12...018559?hash=item33b41b46bf:g:23kAAOSwwpdW9ZW4

The description in that listing isn't correct about its intended use - but it is creative.

 

[NedL]

Matt, are those RC prints and do you put a stamp and address on the back for the postcard exchange?
( been thinking of joining postcard exchange sometime, but just like OP's question, it does seem a little daunting )
I'm a little surprised that you'd worry about latent image degrading in such a short time.

 

[MattKing]

Matt, are those RC prints and do you put a stamp and address on the back for the postcard exchange?
( been thinking of joining postcard exchange sometime, but just like OP's question, it does seem a little daunting )
I'm a little surprised that you'd worry about latent image degrading in such a short time.

Yes, and yes. They are regular RC paper - often Ilford MGIV RC - unlike the somewhat heavier Portfolio paper that Ilford uses for their "Postcard" paper.
I use adhesive labels for the address and description. Those labels add a bit of "stiffening" to the prints, but I don't think that is absolutely necessary.
I don't know whether "degrading" is an ideal word, but there is a difference in density, even if not a large one, between prints that go straight from exposure to the developer and prints that spend several minutes between exposure and the developer. By evening out the time differences, I avoid that issue.

 

[NedL]

Thanks

 

[mshchem]

My "drying area" flat surface, in operation

View attachment 228896

In that case, I was using a proofing easel that aids in putting four 4" x 5" prints on a single 8" x 10" sheet.
One of these Saunders units:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Saunders-12...018559?hash=item33b41b46bf:g:23kAAOSwwpdW9ZW4

The description in that listing isn't correct about its intended use - but it is creative.

That's the first time I've seen a contour door Whirlpool SxS used in that fashion. I see you opted for the non-dispensing unit for more drying area.
That's doubly smart as most service problems are with dispenser. Now you need to try ferrotyping! .

 

[eddie]

...there is a difference in density, even if not a large one, between prints that go straight from exposure to the developer and prints that spend several minutes between exposure and the developer.

That was my experience, too, though I was batch processing fiber paper. It was noticeable in prints which had about 4 minutes between exposure and development. For that reason, I would batch no more than 6 5x7 prints, and 4 8x10 prints before developing.

 

[Luckless]

Excellent points on maintaining and checking alignments. I'm currently working with contact prints, but I imagine I'll be coming back to notes from this thread for awhile. Will ideally have a vacuum table rigged up as part of a printing jig before I get too deep into the project, but I'm still experimenting with alignment and masking methods. [And still debating if I want to black or white edge...]

It is important that you are reasonably consistent about how long the paper holds a latent image.

Now that's an awesome point that I hadn't really considered yet, and will have to make a point of playing with.

Latent image fading over time is something that articles and books bring up enough that I was well aware of it as being 'a thing', but I don't think I've ever noticed it called out so clearly as an issue that could have a noticeable impact on something like this.


So far in my experimental sessions I've been using deep narrow trays [Which were originally sold as semi-disposable storage bins] while using a gloves-n-shuffle style for small half-dozen print batches. But I'll have to make a point of doing some larger time focused experiments to see how things go before settling in.

I also need to remember to buy some more note books...

 

[MattKing]

One of the hazards/joys about doing something like this is that routine is your friend/routine can numb your mind!
Case in point - my technique of printing two images on the same sheet. If I don't have some sort of almost failsafe system in place, there will inevitably be at least one occasion where I'll print an image and then suddenly realize that I can't remember whether it is the first or second print on the sheet.
Of course if the prints themselves require anything in the way of complex burning and dodging routines and/or split contrast printing techniques, it requires a fair amount of intellectual focus to both reliably repeat the printing approach and keep track of my progress in the gang printing. For the postcard exchange, I lean toward negatives that are straightforward to print .
By the way - if you are developing batches of prints, you don't want flat bottom trays!

 

[Cloudy 8]

Latent image fading over time is something that articles and books bring up enough that I was well aware of it as being 'a thing', but I don't think I've ever noticed it called out so clearly as an issue that could have a noticeable impact on something like this.

Possibly latent image fading has become less of an issue with modern papers. The data sheet for Ilford Ilfospeed RC DeLuxe has this to say about latent image stability:

ILFOSPEED RC DeLuxe paper grades 0 to 3 can be recommended with confidence for use in all applications that require paper to be left for a reasonable time between exposure and processing. No significant change in picture quality will be seen on these grades when they are left for a period of 24 hours after exposure and before processing.

In common with other graded papers, ILFOSPEED RC DeLuxe grades 4 and 5 do show some very slight density increase if left for a period between exposure and processing. Even with these grades, however, the changes are very slight. To maintain optimum consistency when machine processing, always leave prints for the same time between exposure and processing, and process them in the same order as exposure.​

I've seen similar notes in the data sheets of other (re-branded) "Made in England" RC papers.