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16mm bolex test... what went wrong?

TheGreatGasMaskMan

TheGreatGasMaskMan

#1
so I tested out my bolex 16mm camera this summer and just got the footage back and I want to know, what happened? is there something wrong with my camera, or was there a loading issue?

 

btaylor

#2
Looks like the experimental films I remember from the ‘60’s!
What is with the scan? Half is white with an unframed image on the left? Like you’re looking at 3 frames? I would look at the film itself- the scan doesn’t make sense to me
 

btaylor

#4
Well, that may explain it- the “16mm” Bolex sounds like it’s an H8 Bolex that had 16mm film run through it. That would explain the half exposed film and the lack of registration on the exposed side because the additional perfs aren’t there. Check the gate and see what the aperture looks like. The video reminder me of then I was a kid and borrowed a 16mm editor to view my 8mm films.
 

btaylor

#6
Yes, who knows, maybe it is the lens. Registration problems do not always appear jittery- when the film is moving in the gate when it is supposed to be stationary the frames are blurred, exactly as the one exposed side exhibits. The blank side of the frame would not be explained by a lens problem. You can see the 16mm perfs clearly on the right side of the frame, so the transfer looks good. You can always try running it through a 16mm projector, that should clear a lot of things up depending on what you see in the screen.
 
Kino

Kino

#7
It would almost seem you got the wrong transfer back OR they mistakenly transferred a R8 film, (that was only exposed on ONE side AND was loaded with the loop too small) in place of your test,

THAT did NOT come from the gate of a 16mm camera...
 
TheGreatGasMaskMan

TheGreatGasMaskMan

#8
Kino said:
It would almost seem you got the wrong transfer back OR they mistakenly transferred a R8 film, (that was only exposed on ONE side AND was loaded with the loop too small) in place of your test,

THAT did NOT come from the gate of a 16mm camera...
Click to expand...
nope. it's a 100ft 16mm roll with only half the frame exposed. the pinwheels at the end are mine for sure.
 
Kino

Kino

#9
Yeah, I should know better than speaking in absolutes by now! :wink:

Totally weird. I managed a University Film School equipment cage and studio for several years and dealt with just about every possible problem known to man, but this tops it all.

Got a pix of your camera?
 
Kino

Kino

#11
Can you confirm the actual film has the clear section on it?

I can think of no way the image would be that small in relationship to the perforations (which are visible on the right of of the transfer) unless you have a Double Regular 8mm camera; A Bolex H8.

If you pull out on the silver pin on the pressure plate, it will fall backwards a bit. Then unscrew the black knurled knob on the bottom of the pressure plate and extract it. You may have to assist the pressure plate backwards to clear the edge of the film guide, but it will slip out. Please take a picture of the taking aperture. I'll bet you find it exactly like my camera; shown here:

https://flic.kr/p/2mjuxBi
https://flic.kr/p/2mjs1Sk
https://flic.kr/p/2mjvFFd
https://flic.kr/p/2mjuxEp
https://flic.kr/p/2mjvFDz
https://flic.kr/p/2mjvFFd

The aperture behind the lens turret will be tiny, like mine.

If you try to run standard 16mm through this, it will flutter terribly and miss the every-other perforation that is "not there".

If you were sold this camera as a 16mm version, you unfortunately were misled.
 
TheGreatGasMaskMan

TheGreatGasMaskMan

#12
I’ll try and photograph the film later, but I think you solved the issue.
I bought it from the camera store where I have my c41 film developed. Though they do video transfer stuff as well, they don’t really sell that many movie cameras.
 
Kino

Kino

#13
In this day and age, I am not surprised they didn't know about Double Regular 8mm, so it was probably an honest mistake.

I just hope they will refund your money graciously.
 
TheGreatGasMaskMan

TheGreatGasMaskMan

#14
Kino said:
In this day and age, I am not surprised they didn't know about Double Regular 8mm, so it was probably an honest mistake.

I just hope they will refund your money graciously.
Click to expand...
I’ll tell them next Thursday, but I’ll still keep it. Foam makes double 8 film and film photography project custom cuts some as well
 
Kino

Kino

#15
Let me know how you like the stock. I have as of yet to shoot with my Bolex H8. Even with a 100' load of Kodachrome sitting here waiting to be threaded! :wink:

It came with the camera. Oh, to have Kodachrome in 100' double 8 loads now; it would probably be $200 a roll...
 
TheGreatGasMaskMan

TheGreatGasMaskMan

#16
well... you've also explained why my take up spool didn't fit in my film can.
I actually would like to have a couple high end double 8 cameras, I just wasn't expecting this to be one.
I've also got a true double perf 16mm camera- a keystone criterion deluxe. I've shot about 30 feet but don't know what I want to use next.
my previous standard 8 test was shot on foma r 100, and I see you've already commented on that.

Film Photography project's store also has some color 8mm films for sale, so maybe I'll use those in the distant future.
 
TheGreatGasMaskMan

TheGreatGasMaskMan

#17
Also... the lab never returned my take up spool, so if I don't want a small 25 ft one, should I order a 100 foot spool or a 400 foot one?
 

btaylor

#18
Well you probably won’t be able to find a 400 ft daylight reel. 100ft is a standard daylight spool for 16mm. 25 ft for standard 8.
H8 and H16 Bolex cameras look very similar. Besides the film gate you can check the lenses or the focal lengths listed on the side viewfinder. Normal lens for 8mm is 12.5 or 13mm, wise is 5.5, tele often 36mm. 16mm “normal” lens is 25mm.
 
Kino

Kino

#19
The H8 is a great camera, but the era of 100 foot double 8 loads has probably passed and a 25 foot load just feels inadequate when you have all that internal real estate going to waste. I found only one place in Europe that very infrequently sells 100 foot loads of newly perforated b&w and color stock for around $117. Ouch.

The Eumig C3 and C3M cameras are also very nice; in fact there are many very nice Regular 8mm cameras out there. Hard to choose; just depends on what you want to do. If you can find a Carena Zoomex reflex 8mm camera (made in Liechtenstein) in good working order, one version sports a fantastic Angenieux 7.5 to 35mm zoom lens, pistol grip spring wound motor and "buck rogers ray gun" styling, but they are getting hard to find in full working order.

The Bolex H8 is hard to beat if you want to do single frame animation and D mount lenses are not real expensive (or they didn't used to be) but some find the non-reflex finder very cumbersome and ungainly. It just takes a bit more time to properly compose and frame a shot with using the critical focus and adjusting parallax on the viewfinder.
 
Kino

Kino

#20
TheGreatGasMaskMan said:
Also... the lab never returned my take up spool, so if I don't want a small 25 ft one, should I order a 100 foot spool or a 400 foot one?
Click to expand...
Yes, you do have to ask for it back or they will keep it! You can use a 100' spool, but it's a pain with 25 foot loads. 400' daylight spools are pretty rare now days. If I had known that they would have become so rare, I wouldn't have thrown them out by the box full in the 1990's...
 
TheGreatGasMaskMan

TheGreatGasMaskMan

#21
Kino said:
Yes, you do have to ask for it back or they will keep it! You can use a 100' spool, but it's a pain with 25 foot loads. 400' daylight spools are pretty rare now days. If I had known that they would have become so rare, I wouldn't have thrown them out by the box full in the 1990's...
Click to expand...
problem is I did.
 
TheGreatGasMaskMan

TheGreatGasMaskMan

#22
Kino said:
The H8 is a great camera, but the era of 100 foot double 8 loads has probably passed and a 25 foot load just feels inadequate when you have all that internal real estate going to waste. I found only one place in Europe that very infrequently sells 100 foot loads of newly perforated b&w and color stock for around $117. Ouch.

The Eumig C3 and C3M cameras are also very nice; in fact there are many very nice Regular 8mm cameras out there. Hard to choose; just depends on what you want to do. If you can find a Carena Zoomex reflex 8mm camera (made in Liechtenstein) in good working order, one version sports a fantastic Angenieux 7.5 to 35mm zoom lens, pistol grip spring wound motor and "buck rogers ray gun" styling, but they are getting hard to find in full working order.

The Bolex H8 is hard to beat if you want to do single frame animation and D mount lenses are not real expensive (or they didn't used to be) but some find the non-reflex finder very cumbersome and ungainly. It just takes a bit more time to properly compose and frame a shot with using the critical focus and adjusting parallax on the viewfinder.
Click to expand...
wait, is it a d mount or c mount?
 
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