How's this title? I can change it, if you would like, or I suppose Sino should be able to as well as the group founder. Do you have the "Edit Group" option at the bottom of the page?

Thanks David. The title seems fine to me
Yes, I do see Edit Group on the bottom of the page, but when I click on it, it only allows me to edit the group's description.

-Sino.

I will form a break-away group called "Eastern Mediterranean and Balkan APUGers", steal your members and start a war with you. Traitors!

Sino--you can't scroll down the page and see a box for editing the group name, and another box for the description?

Ari--of course we will fully expect the Balkanization of the Balkans group.

Nope, David. All I see is this.

Ari, how typical of a Greek. ;-)

-Sino.

Does need a shorter snappy name, then the description below stating where we are based.

Perhaps there's a Greek word that can be used to describe the Group relating to photography.

Ian

Okay, then, I can hang out here and take care of any edits until it all settles down. I've studied Old Church Slavonic, so I'll be representing the medieval southern Slavs.

So, now we have to bring our known resident Bosnian, Croat, Turks and Israelis.
There should be an option to invite people to a group, like a simple automated PM.

One of those days, when I have some free time, I am planning to make a list of Greek dealers of photo equipment and analog materials, along with prices on the latter.

Ari, one major issue is the availability of products, for instance the Turkish importer of Ilford doesn't import the full range of films/sizes.

I'm sure there must be similar issues in Greece/The Balkans/etc. It would be useful to lobby companies with our problems obtaining supplies.

Your suggestion of a dealers list is excellent. Back when the restrictions on airline fight Hand baggage were severe, ie NONE from UK airports, 2 years ago, I did ask Simon Galley at Ilford if the company could provide an on-line list of stockists in each country, this has not yet been done.

Ian

Ari: there is indeed a feature to invite people at a group. If you have any one on your mind, let me know & I'll invite them.

I second the idea for a list of suppliers. Would that be all the shops we can find that sell analog equipment & film/paper/chems or only the importers? I've got a few on my mind, but they are mostly at Thessaloniki.

Ian: pretty much the same applies to Greece. Most shops that are carrying film/paper/chems only carry some of the Ilford line [mostly a couple of 35mm films & some sizes of paper] and some Kodak TMAX & chems. We have had this discussion and most of us order from other countries what we need...

-Sino.

Sino, I agree that often people have to buy some items from abroad, usually the US, UK or Germany, but there is a need to try and encourage local suppliers to stock items.

Better still try and get a better relationship between the users, retailers, importers and manufacturers, so that if we want to order an item not imported, or out of stock, it can be sent direct to the dealer, bypassing the importer. This system works already in the UK, and I think is being rolled out in the US, by Ilford.

It's a chicken & egg situation forced on us by certain dealers/importers, who have lost business through there own poor service to online retailers in other countries.

Ian

Well, I joined, too
Luckily, I'm in Croatia, so as long as Fotokemika (Efke) is in business, I'm OK.
Although, having some Ilford chems wouldn't be bad. There were some problems with the local distributor, but another one has taken over, and seems to be doing a good job. One has to wait (a month or two), but the orders are getting through, and the Ilford stuff is available (after some waiting).

Denis

Welcome Denis!

Looks like we can justify our own forum, so I've created one. Let's continue our conversations there!

-Sino.

Hello

About availability here. I can talk only about Sarajevo, capital of BiH and Federation of BiH, and in other (smaller) places situation is simillar or worse. I don't know sbout Banja Luka (capital of RS), recent past just make me ignore that part of country. So:

B/W: You simply must bring your own and you must prosess it by yourself. So, don't hope you can buy anything of b/w here. We have Kodak representative, and Fuji representative and as I know, Kodak representative can order, but waiting is too long, so visitors will not get material while they are here and Fuji as I know don't import their b/w material. And no labs here process b/w neither films or prints (you can get prints from b/w film on Fuji chrystal archive paper on Frontier machines or Kodak in few labs with Kodak machines/material).

You can (maybe) buy chromogenic b/w film and as it is C41 process you can process it here and get prints made on colour papers either Kodak (few labs) or Fuji (majority labs) Some labs from time to time get b/w paper for RA4 process, but it is something you CAN NOT depend on.

One shop selled EFKE, but for 2 years now it is gone and nobody import EFKE anymore.

SO, in conclusion. b/w you are on your own.

COLOUR: SLIDE (E6): You are on your own. NO films to buy, no lab with E6 process and no prints form slide film on Ilfochrome. You can get prints from slide on Fuji christal archive paper, and majority labs hare have Frontier machines.

COLOUR: NEGATIVE: Easily available fresh Fuji Superia range (100-400 ASA, and rarely 800ASA) and Kodak Gold range (200 to 400 ASA).

In Sarajevo, labs mostly have fresh C41 and RA4 chemistry and you can easilly have film/print good processed. All labs here 1 hour labs and mostly work up to A4 format prints, and some of them can make bigger prints.

Price for C41 processing per film is 1-1,5 EURO, prints (price per one print) are about 0,2 EURO for 9x13cm, 0.25 EURO for 10x15cm print, 0,5 EURO for 13x18 print, 0,75 for 15x20cm (15x21cm) print and 2,5 EURO for A4 print. Labs which have lesser prices have lower quality except one lab who has little smaller prices and still maintain relativelly good quality. There is option for double prints when make all prints from roll of 35mm film, and prices are little smaller then sum of 2 prints individually. Prices are same regardless you make prints from negative (colour or b/w), slide, digital media, mobile phone... There are options to scan film to CD, but I wouldn't recomment it, it is expencive and you get quality needed for A4 print for Fuji Frontier at best, and reasonable price you get quality for 10x15cm print..

Here you can not buy professional C41 films like NPH, Portra, etc...

So, I would recommend anyone who comming here, especially b/w and slide users, to bring their own films and to process them when return home. Only C41/RA4 is OK here, and even that is at your own risk.

No Lambda and other "exotic" processes, only Fuji Frontier and Kodak equivalent of it. Labs which make bigger prints make them on Epson Photo printers (that is ink-jet) and they call it plotter, usually biggest size 80cm wide (roll paper)...

Welcome Denis and Haris and thank you for sharing that information with us.
Can't Denis send you some Efke materials Haris, to help foster Bosnian-Croatian commercial relationships?

Maybe, but! For now I am OK with source of material, and it would be hassle, you know custom and like, so...

Oh, about equipment. You can buy here nothing! Some bags (cheap), some tripods, and Canon lenses. Cameras only digital. Other equipment is not available, and secondhand market is not exsisting. I buy everything abroad, and what I bought here was few years ago, today forget abut buying here. Also, no service when your equipment is broken.

This country is European photography black hole...

Most of the S/H equipment from Bosnia & Croatia etc seems to sell internationally via Ebay, I just received a parcel of 9x12 film holders last week. The seller had a very good stock of analog equipment, and seems very reliable.

I transferred my posts to forum section of this group.

Ian, did you got it from Bosnian or Croatian seller. Croatia is different story than BiH, and yes, I can understand there are some people in BiH who have and do analog photography, but we are usually not knowing about eachother. Poor clubs scene and like...

I transferred my posts to forum part of this group.

Ian, did you got it from Croatian or Bosnian seller. Those two country are different story, Croatia is "more advanced" about 10 years from BiH. I do understand in BiH are some people who work analoug photography and have equipment, but we usually don't know about eachother. Poor club scene, poor information channels and like...

The Groups forum is in the wrong section really. We should warrant being in the APUG Regional Focus Groups, not tucked away where it's impossible to find.

Haris,Croatia, I think. But I buy from some strange places.

Ian, maybe we can continue the discussions there and if the discussion is 'alive' enough we can ask for the forum to be transferred there? Maybe David can help...

-Sino.

As this was falling into place, I suspected this issue would arise, since it's unclear whether the regionally oriented Social Groups should be Regional Groups, and then there's the other question of whether the Regional Groups should be separate from the other forums as they are now, or just another group of regular forums.

Posts to public Social Group forums do appear on everyone's New Posts view, so people will see the forum.

I can't set up a Regional Group, but Sean can, so maybe that's something that needs to be sorted out and merits a thread in the Feedback Forum.