110/16mm Camera Image Quality

Cholentpot

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Argus Pix Panorama. It's made for 35mm and shoots them cropped too pano but I figured loading 16mm into it makes more sense.

Tri-X 16mm














some uneven development
 
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I have developed my first roll of Kodak Double-X 16mm using CineStill D96 and Adox Adofix.
Unfortunately, my MEC 16SB seems to have some feeding issues. I have attached some screenshots. It has also added tear on the feeding perforations.
How can I fix this issue?
 

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Cholentpot

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Bummer. I shot a bunch of rolls over the summer and just developed all of them. Turns out my Rollei A110 has spacing issues with 110 film.











You win some you lose some.
 
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My only complete foto from todays shoot
I have to find someone who is able to fix old cameras. I am quite surprised that the sharpness is not even that bad.

Anyway - does someone know how to get rid of those spots in the sky? Probably something I did wrong during development?
 

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xkaes

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My understanding is that the MEC uses sprocket teeth to pull the film out of the feeder cassette and push it into the take-up cassette. My guess is that either the film is having a hard time getting pulled out of the feeder cassette or is having a hard time getting pushed into the take-up cassette -- or both. I'd check out both cassettes, reload them with scrap film and see if you can find any obstruction with the lights on.

The spots in the sky look like a development problem -- bubbles? Do you use a prewash?
 

xkaes

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It happens. I did learn if I tape down the feeler pin I can use 16mm or slit down 35mm in the camera. So I got that going for me.

Fortunately, the Rollei A110 & E110 cameras can use single-perf, double-perf, or unperforated film in reloaded 110 cassettes with these caveats:

  • With UNPERFORATED film, advance the film based on the numbers on the paper-backing. The camera does not use the perforations to cock the shutter.
  • With DOUBLE PERFORATED film, advance the film based on the numbers on the paper-backing -- BUT cover the lens and release the shutter as needed to advance the film. The perforations will appear on the edge of the image.
  • With SINGLE PERFORATED film, there are two options:

    #1 -- Place the perforations on the TOP of the 110 cassette (away from the side with the film advance gear) and advance the film based on the numbers on the paper-backing as with unperforated film (above). The perforations will appear on the edge of the image.

    #2 -- To avoid having the perforations appear in the image, place the perforations on the BOTTOM of the 110 cassette (the side with the film advance gear) and treat the film as DOUBLE PERFORATED (above).
With the later Pocketline 110 cameras -- 100, 200, and 300 -- the 110 perforations are needed to cock the shutter, but these cameras can be used with perforated film if the perforations are placed on the shutter cocking side -- and if the film is advanced as with double perforated film.
 

xya

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I have this camera and mine has no problem with film advance https://www.subcompactcam.com/16mm_mec_16_sb.htm. It can use single perfed film as long as the perfs are on the good side, or double perfs. Do not try to push too much film into the receiving cartridge, 20 pictures should be the limit. And have a test with exposed film, if the spirals in the casette let you push in about 50cm of film. That would be a full 24 exposures.
 

Cholentpot

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Or just tape down the feeler which works for me.
 

Helge

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Check the cassettes. Does the film exit and enter smoothly? 16SB should be able to use both double and single perf.
Feed the failed film through the camera and observe closely what happens when the claw crabs the film and pulls it. Are all the springs there?
Ripped sprocket holes can be both too much tension on the film, or incomplete grabbing of it.
 

xkaes

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Which side do you consider as good? I think there is only one way to load the film, otherwise you expose the "dull" side of the film, right?

XYA is referring to single perf film with the perfs being on the correct edge of the film -- up or down in the cassette -- not the emulsion side being in or out.
 

Cholentpot

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Pentax Auto 110 Super film claimed to be Tiger 200 but on development it turns out it was Fuji of some sort.





 
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XYA is referring to single perf film with the perfs being on the correct edge of the film -- up or down in the cassette -- not the emulsion side being in or out.

If you use single perf you have to flip the film such that the holes are on the other side. And this means the emulsion is on the wrong side, isn't it?
 
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Or just tape down the feeler which works for me.

My E110 does better with thicker film, but with thinner film the feeler pushes the one edge away for sure which makes for some funky looking negatives. I might just do some surgery on it at some point. It is too complicated to take apart so I might just clip it off. There is no going back from that though.

On the other hand I just picked up a Fujica 600 after looking for one for the better part of five years. Trying to figure out if that will work with unperfed microfilm. There is an additional feeler at the edge of the cassette that engages somehow with the pin which engages the film sprockets. If the sprocket pin hasn't been moved, then the secondary pin locks the shutter release. If the cassette is clipped so the second feeler isn't engaged, then the shutter will release, but the wind won't stop (not a big deal). Not sure how that all relates to the exposure system. Without batteries the camera doesn't fire. I can't detect a difference in the shutter sound either way so perhaps the camera needs to be fixed. Even with my finger over the exposure window the shutter doesn't change. I have a roll of microfilm in it now.
 

Cholentpot

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I've got a Minolta Weathermatic A sitting on my desk that I'm not quite sure what to do with. Without film it winds and shoots, but if I put a dummy roll in it won't wind.
 

xkaes

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Most of Fuji's 110 cameras do not use the 110 film perforations to cock the shutter. This mean that these cameras can be reloaded with 16mm film (in 110 cassettes, of course) -- if a small change is made to the camera or the cassette. The 16mm film can be perforated or unperforated, but if it's perforated the perforation will appear in the mage. Specifically, some of these Fujica cameras have a tiny "cassette sensor" along the edge of the film plane. If a small notch is cut into the edge of the cassette to avoid pushing the sensor in, the camera will operate normally. Other models have a much larger cassette sensor/tab in the bottom of the film take-up chamber. If this sensor is filed or cut off, the camera will work.

http://www.subclub.org/shop/fuji110.htm
 

Cholentpot

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I notched a cassette and it didn't work. I'm going to load up with a dummy roll next.
 
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I’ll have to take a closer look at my 600. The only sensor I am aware of besides the perf sensor is located about where the film speed sensor is on my Rollei, just higher up. I clipped a cassette so it it doesn’t engage the sensor, as a result, the camera seems to function.
 
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