110/16mm Camera Image Quality

[Agulliver]

1981-85 I used the Minolta 110 Zoom SLR quite frequently. I don't have any examples to share but my recollection is that with Kodacolor 100 film and later Agfa 200, the pictures were pretty sharp...at least for 5" prints. I did have some enlargements made back in the day and one thing was the lab refused to do big poster prints from anything smaller than 35mm. With Kodacolor 400, the grain was there for sure...but it didn't spoil the image. I remember shooting some in a theatre under-exposing by a stop and the lab still managed to make decent prints - this in 1983 when everything was done optically even if there was some automation. Sadly that camera developed a shutter problem and even trying a professional and highly regarded repair shop this very year yielded no luck. I'd like to try it with Lomography Tiger film.

The thing with the Minolta was it had manual focus and aperture control which meant you could get sharper focus than the fixed focus f10 jobbies that most 110 cameras were. I would say that with most 110 cameras you saw the limitations of the optics, with the Minolta 110 Zoom SLR you saw the limitations of the format. It would be interesting indeed to see what one can do with modern film and scanning. I've shot Tiger in a "normal" 110 camera and really liked it.

 

[xya]

..The thing with the Minolta was it had manual focus and aperture control which meant you could get sharper focus than the fixed focus f10 jobbies that most 110 cameras were. I would say that with most 110 cameras you saw the limitations of the optics, with the Minolta 110 Zoom SLR you saw the limitations of the format. It would be interesting indeed to see what one can do with modern film and scanning. I've shot Tiger in a "normal" 110 camera and really liked it.

try their new metropolis film, it's even better. speaking of 110 format, don't forget the pentax with it's interchangeable lenses. that one also shows the limitations of the film...

 

[ciniframe]

Believe it not folks, when Kodak introduced the Pocket Instamatics in 1972 there was a great deal of concern from the photographic press that the 110 format would cut too far into 35mm sales and ‘ruin’ that market. Of course with the introduction of very compact 35mm RF such as the Konica C-35 and others of that type the small size of 110 cameras was not as much of an advantage. Still easier to load but most drugstore processing never came up to the standards that Kodak showed was possible with the 13x17 negative with expert care. Of course typical machine processing of 35mm could also be quite bad. But still, most people were happy with the then 3.5x5 inch ‘album prints’ that got pasted into the family albums.

 

[Huss]

Rollei A110 w/ Fukkatsu film

 

[Donald Qualls]

Nice. Hope I get similar results from my 60. First roll's waiting for processing.

 

[Huss]

Rollei A110 w Lomo Orca. I actually don't consider the Rollei a LoFi camera. It is a superb camera that happens to use 110 film.

 

[Huss]

Once I get some decent weather (and time!) I'm going to whip out this bad boy. With a single speed and single aperture, kinda need that..
(The Rollei A110 in comparison has Auto exposure with shutter speeds from 4 sec to 1/400, and aperture from 2.8 to 16)

 

[Cholentpot]

Minolta 16II, Vision3 50D

Not my sharpest camera I'd say...

 

[ic-racer]

Minolta 16II has a very sharp lens. With the Minolta 16II one needs to have correct focus lens for the scene and correct aperture. Usually not more than 2 stops down for critical sharpness. Film has to be capable of resolving the image too.

 

[Cholentpot]

Minolta 16II has a very sharp lens. With the Minolta 16II one needs to have correct focus lens for the scene and correct aperture. Usually not more than 2 stops down for critical sharpness. Film has to be capable of resolving the image too.

This film is pretty capable.

Praktica MTL3 with a 24mm vivtar lens.

 

[ic-racer]

Looks good, can you duplicate that with the Minolta?

 

[AgX]

I'd be very surprised if any submini camera other than a Minox with Complan or Kodak with Ektar has anything other than a triplet

The better Agfa ones have Tessar-types. One model even focusing down to 25 centimeters.

Fuji had a model with 7E/6G lens and another one with a zoom lens.

Vivitar had a model with 6E/5G lens.

 

[Cholentpot]

Looks good, can you duplicate that with the Minolta?

Nope. I'm missing the filters for the Minolta. These photos were taken with a 35mm SLR.

 

[eddie]

...I'm going to whip out this bad boy.

Wouldn't that be a bad girl?

 

[blockend]

Still easier to load but most drugstore processing never came up to the standards that Kodak showed was possible with the 13x17 negative with expert care. Of course typical machine processing of 35mm could also be quite bad. But still, most people were happy with the then 3.5x5 inch ‘album prints’ that got pasted into the family albums.

There was a huge price discrepancy between mail envelope processing, and pro lab C41. 110 was a sub-miniature format that required expert handling, which it very rarely received.

 

[AgX]

Concerning industrial labs I do not see to what extend type 110 would have been handled differently than type 135.

 

[ciniframe]

Minolta 16II, Vision3 50D

Not my sharpest camera I'd say...

Do you only have one sample of the 16II? I’ve only shot B&W with mine (Actually have several, they were so cheap) but usually get better results. I make enlargements of about 12x on 5X7 paper. But, as noted, the ‘0’ correction lens is on the camera almost all the time, so focus is at 33 ft. And my everyday 16II is modified and can take a homemade device that clips on a modified accessory shoe so that I can use series 5 close up lenses if I need to.
I have more enjoyment making these contraptions than actually taking pictures....go figure.

 

[ciniframe]

Have to admit, I’ve gone to silly lengths to get around the problems of the 16II’s fixed focus lens. If I had any sense it would be much better just to buy another Kiev 30 and be done with it. All my Minolta 16 cartridges will fit and the bigger negative and focusing lens will more than compensate for the slower top shutter speed and lack of a ‘B’ setting. Probably less than $50 from Russia or Ukraine.

Edit: Just checked ebay, Kiev 30 can be had for less than $40!

 

[Donald Qualls]

Have to admit, I’ve gone to silly lengths to get around the problems of the 16II’s fixed focus lens. If I had any sense it would be much better just to buy another Kiev 30 and be done with it. All my Minolta 16 cartridges will fit and the bigger negative and focusing lens will more than compensate for the slower top shutter speed and lack of a ‘B’ setting. Probably less than $50 from Russia or Ukraine.

Edit: Just checked ebay, Kiev 30 can be had for less than $40!

Kiev 30 and Kiev 303 are my favorite subminis. My only complaint is that if I open the camera and then don't make the exposure for one reason or another, the frame is lost, because it always advances on closing.

 

[xya]

Kiev 30 and Kiev 303 are my favorite subminis. My only complaint is that if I open the camera and then don't make the exposure for one reason or another, the frame is lost, because it always advances on closing.

that's a chance as well. you know that the frame would be lost anyway. so you do something with it at least. and sometimes, it's quite nice...

 

[ciniframe]

Kiev 30 and Kiev 303 are my favorite subminis. My only complaint is that if I open the camera and then don't make the exposure for one reason or another, the frame is lost, because it always advances on closing.

And my 16II and Minox IIIs do the same thing, so...all in all, no loss there.
My hang up is the conversation with the missus, I can hear it now, “Another camera!? Do you really need another camera? Can’t you use one of the 30 or 40 you already have?”
There is no correct response to that question except “No, I don’t need it...but I WANT it...to play with.”
Sometimes honesty is the best policy.

 

[ic-racer]

Have to admit, I’ve gone to silly lengths to get around the problems of the 16II’s fixed focus lens.

Do you not have the close up and distance lens set? None of these 16mm cameras a perfect at everything. I'm still looking for the perfect one. Each has different compromises. Good thing is most are pretty inexpensive and easy to store. So I'd recommend trying as many different types as you can. A lot of 16mm photography is based on fun.

 

[ciniframe]

Do you not have the close up and distance lens set? None of these 16mm cameras a perfect at everything. I'm still looking for the perfect one. Each has different compromises. Good thing is most are pretty inexpensive and easy to store. So I'd recommend trying as many different types as you can. A lot of 16mm photography is based on fun.

Yep, have the set, the #0 #1 and #2. Normally one has to open the camera to shooting position to slip on a lens. With my main 16II that bothered me so I attached a thin piece of aluminum with a slot for the filter to the camera so I can slip on or off lenses without opening the camera. The lens being an extra 1.5mm or so out from the lens doesn’t seem to make any difference in the results. Just cannot resist the urge to tinker. Always building some photographic contraption or another.
And you are definitely right about the fun factor of 16mm cameras.

Edit: By the way, if anyone has any secrets about the ‘conversation with the missus’ I’m all ears.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Edit: By the way, if anyone has any secrets about the ‘conversation with the missus’ I’m all ears.

Rent a P.O. Box? With cameras this size, you can palm them, or stick them in a pocket, and once they're in the house, it's "Oh, honey, I've had that one for years, it's just so small you didn't notice it behind the Speed Graphic."

Or get her a nice 35mm automatic camera to learn on and offer to supply and process her film; next thing you know, she might be demanding you share the darkroom and sneaking cameras past you.

 

[AgX]

So I'd recommend trying as many different types as you can.

Which made me realize that I hardly ever came across 16mm still cameras locally. I am not quite sure why. Likely reason is that in the respective period such japanese cameras typically only were sold by mail-order retailers.