6 years after, how is the longevity of the new HC-110?

[Helinophoto]

I was a long time user of the original HC-110 and still have some here. But I switched to PMK Pyro and Pyrocat-HDC and never looked back. Pyrocat does everything HC-110 did better and cheaper. For some edge cases, I still use D-76, DK-50, and D-23, but that's fairly rare.

HC-110 - it is rumored - was created for high volume photo processing shops as a drop in replacement for D-76. For the volumes any of us likely use, it makes no sense to keep chasing what is now a largely defunct formula. Pyrocat will give you comparable acutance, well managed highlights, somewhat better effective EI, and better grain masking.

I see, well, I do still have some powder packs, among them, Micopen, SuperProdol (meant for my deep-frozen Neopan 400 and Neopan1600), and D-76, heck, I even think I have a pack of XTol lying around, though, I have no idea about the condition on these, as they are probably around 10 years old now.

Well packed dry chems tend to hold up a bit longer at least, I will mix the XTol at some point and to a strip-test to see if there is still some reaction in the chemicals.
I actually think that I might have pyro too, I have to check (I thought I purchased some to have, back in the day, but never got around to use it).

The thing with my typical developers though, is that they are long lasting, first and foremost, so 95% of everything is developed in either HC-110 and Rodinal.
I use HC-110 for a different and possibly cleaner look than Rodinal, but, for films like Acros, Rodinal 1:50 just gives it bite, grit and a wonderful contrast.

If I was to use a 1 litre pack of D-76 for example, I would normally shoot 8-10 rolls and run them through the dev and then dump it, because I would have no chance to use it again before it went bad.

So for me, it is really about having something on hand/on demand that will just work well, I do have Ilfords Ilfotec HC in an unopened bottle ready to go now, but I still have about 250ml, left of the old-type HC-110 that I will finish first.

I shoot very little generally, and about 60% of everything is digi*, the rest is analog, but then split between HC-110 and Rodinal, so I "burn through" my chemicals at a snails pace. (I do portraiture)

Winter is an even slower time of the year, as it is usually meant to be the darkroom-season to make some nice prints from the developed negatives made over the summer.
- incidentally, I swear to Ethol LPD for printing, as it is powder (well, it used to be! ), gives really interesting effects with warm-papers, and can be made when needed and it just keeps on trucking, even after the working solution has been stored for several weeks.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Here in Europe it is a bigger thing because people have been used to the Tetenal version until today.

That´s why we decided to bring this formulary back to give you the choice.

It´s a beast to produce. We had to set up old equipment from Ilford Switzerland to pump this thick stuff.

But after several months of R&D we are proud to announce: The syrup is back!




Coming soon. Stay tuned ;-)

 

[lamerko]

 

[ntenny]

My gosh, that’s unexpected good news. Is it a true work-alike (same development times and so on)?

-NT

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

My gosh, that’s unexpected good news. Is it a true work-alike (same development times and so on)?

-NT

Yes, if compared to the "Made in Germany" version.

 

[jvo]

Here in Europe it is a bigger thing because people have been used to the Tetenal version until today.

That´s why we decided to bring this formulary back to give you the choice.

It´s a beast to produce. We had to set up old equipment from Ilford Switzerland to pump this thick stuff.

But after several months of R&D we are proud to announce: The syrup is back!


View attachment 388858

Coming soon. Stay tuned ;-)

reason enough to open up the darkroom again!!!!

 

[John Wiegerink]

I'll buy that! No, joke? This is very good news and a bottle of this pancake syrup will have a spot on the self in my darkroom for sure. It was the very first film developer I ever used, but I drifted away from it.

 

[Kino]

Wow! Now that is dedication!

Thanks ADOX!

 

[Colin Corneau]

This is heresy, I know but...the syrup was a complete pain in the wazoo. I used other developers for many years, because of that and HC-110 wasn't distributed widely in my area.

Bought the new formula a few years ago and it's ALL I'll use now. Fantastic developer that brings out the best in any film I shoot...what can I say, I know what I see when I see it.

 

[logan2z]

This is heresy, I know but...the syrup was a complete pain in the wazoo.

I have to agree. The syrup might have lasted forever (I had one bottle for 6 years before I used it up), but it was a bit of a nuisance to use. I switched to L110 after running out of the syrup and it behaves exactly the same way as the original formula but has the consistency of water so it's much easier to measure/pour/mix.

 

[brbo]

GREAT news!

Now, if only I liked HC-110 (my 14-year-old bottle is still half full)... But, happy for all people that like this developer.

 

[John Wiegerink]

GREAT news!

Now, if only I liked HC-110 (my 14-year-old bottle is still half full)... But, happy for all people that like this developer.

I'm a little like you in that it would not be my everyday developer. HC-110 does some things very well. Like developing long expired film or developing films of high contrast using it very diluted. Oh, and like you already pointed to, it keeps for a long, long time.

 

[JIM-UK]

Hi

It should now be plenty of examples of people using opened and half-empty bottles of the new HC-110 formula.

I refrained from buying it last year, when I had to replace my (thicker) HC-110, as I was finally able to finish the bottle.
Seeing how much less viscous it was just put me off, it is expensive (per bottle), and if it doesn't hold up the way the old stuff did, then it is a high risk of throwing money out the window. I really don't shoot that much, not enough to kill a bottle in a year, with a typical working strength at 1:32 (Dil B).

In the meantime, I have switched to Ilfotec HC, which has a proven track record, similar to the thicker HC-110 (at concentrate, from what I could find online).

What are your experiences with the "new" Kodak HC-110, 6 years down the line?

Why did they changed something that works and have been working since forever I wonder, it seems downright stupid, unless there is some economical motive here (shorter shelf life, more dev per film or something else).

I use the Bellini version, which I buy from Nik and Trick Services Photographique in Folkestone. It lasts for ages and ages and ages. Yes, it goes brown and syrupey, but still works.

 

[brbo]

HC-110 does some things very well. Like developing long expired film or developing films of high contrast using it very diluted.

And I only use it in high concentration dilutions when messing around with E-6, RA-4, C-41 reversal process, which goes to show that it's a very decent can-do-it-all developer. Otherwise, I have no problems with HC-110 it's just that Xtol has better grain and sharpness (for my taste anyway) and works with every BW film I've ever tried.

 

[Ben Hutcherson]

I'm someone who's never been a big user of HC110, if it's not apparent that the only 1L bottle of it that I've bought new is still probably over 3/4 full. I find the syrup version a bit of a pain as well since it often takes me several tries to actually get it all out of the graduate I'm using to measure it.

With that said, it's a developer I wouldn't want to be without. There's no single job where I think it's the best tool for the job(expired film might come close, but D76 with some added benzotriazole does respectably too) but there's a lot of things it does anywhere from acceptably to really well. Even though I'm a D76 guy for a general purpose developer, there are a lot of times where HC-110(H) or (G) gives me a really similar result to D76.

To me its strength is that it can be the only developer on your shelf for a lot of jobs. If I'm not mistaken, don't some people even use it as a print developer?

I will also go through periods where I don't develop anything for a long time, or may only sporadically develop. I've done a lot of developing this past fall, but back in September/early October I needed to test a couple of Hasselblad backs, and the only way I know to really fully test one is to shoot film in it. I shot a roll in the backs in question and ran them in HC110. Why? Because I didn't know that was going to be a spring board to realized that yes, even though I don't currently have a darkroom, I can still develop film, and even though I had a few packets of D76 on-hand, I didn't want to mix one(especially since I wanted to develop THAT DAY and I normally like to let D76 rest for 24h after mixing, not the least to cool off). That old little-used bottle of HC110 came to the rescue for me.

 

[DWThomas]

I find the syrup version a bit of a pain as well since it often takes me several tries to actually get it all out of the graduate I'm using to measure it.

I use "Dilution H" (1+63) mostly and bought one of those medicine syringes for use with kids that has a 10 mL capacity. Now after many years gone by and I wanted separate syringes for other chemistry, I find the commonly available version of that no longer has an O-ring sealed plunger. Those don't work as nicely for runny liquids like stop bath. I suppose there is still something out there that I can find on-line, but I've not tried.

 

[Ben Hutcherson]

I use "Dilution H" (1+63) mostly and bought one of those medicine syringes for use with kids that has a 10 mL capacity. Now after many years gone by and I wanted separate syringes for other chemistry, I find the commonly available version of that no longer has an O-ring sealed plunger. Those don't work as nicely for runny liquids like stop bath. I suppose there is still something out there that I can find on-line, but I've not tried.

I'm a father of a 2 year old so we have a lot of medicine syringes around the house. You can buy them of course, but a lot of medicine comes with one in the box and at least our pharmacy tends to put a couple in every prescription.

Most are plastic in plastic, and a lot of those are only marked in the dosages for the medicine they're intended for, or only in "major" increments for the doses you're likely to give(say 1.25, 2.5, 3.75, 5). With that said, I've never tried with HC-110, but a lot of medicines are fairly viscous and I suspect they'd work fine.

We do have some fancy ones that have a plunger, but also don't even have marks on the syringe barrel. They just have "stops" you set for 2.5, 5, 7.5, and 10.

The ones from the pharmacy are the only easy to find ones that are fully marked. Most are either .1 or .2mL increments. Unfortunately too, though, they seem to be effectively disposable. They're meant to be washed and reused a few times, but the markings wear off them pretty quickly.

That's my run-down of them. I've used both rubber plunger and tightly fitted plastic(along with plastic in glass and even metal in glass) in the lab and generally they will handle fairly viscous liquids well. In fact, when I was still using a lot of them in the lab, where glass wasn't an option, the plastic-in-plastic almost became preferable because the solvent compatibility of the rubber wasn't always great and it would tend to swell and fall apart within a few minutes of starting to use it.

 

[MattKing]

I used to use a 45ml Paterson measuring graduate - the tall and narrow one.
I'd fill it with water until the meniscus bottomed at a convenient spot - say 30 ml.
Then I slowly added a very slow and thin pour of the syrup until the bottom of the meniscus was raised up to my usual target 6 ml higher - in this case 36 ml.
It required care, but it wasn't difficult.
The only relatively tricky bit was making sure that the pour went into the water, and didn't first contact the side of the graduate.
If XTol went away, I'd be happy with either of the versions that seek to be the successor to traditional syrup HC-110 - the current less viscous US manufactured Photo Systems High Concentrate developer, or the new EU manufactured more viscous ADOX HC-110 Pro developer referenced in this thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...water-free-version-manufactured-again.211564/

 

[John Wiegerink]

I too, am a Xtol-R (now Adox XT-3-R) user and it, along with Pyrocat-HDC will remain my "go-to" developers. I still want a bottle of this new syrup on my shelf. As of late, I have much more faith in Adox chemicals myself. I really like XT-3 so far, knock on wood.

 

[logan2z]

I used to use a 45ml Paterson measuring graduate - the tall and narrow one.
I'd fill it with water until the meniscus bottomed at a convenient spot - say 30 ml.
Then I slowly added a very slow and thin pour of the syrup until the bottom of the meniscus was raised up to my usual target 6 ml higher - in this case 36 ml.
It required care, but it wasn't difficult.

That's exactly how I do/did it - maybe because I read a post by you describing the method I do it the same way now using the newer watery formula.

 

[Helinophoto]

I've always used a syringe with HC-110, I would pour out F amount into an egg-holder and then just suck up the needed concentrate with the syringe.
Then, I would just spash it into a regular 1 liter measuring beacon and add water to 600ml and stir.
Any remainder in the egg-glass was easily put back into the bottle again by sucking it up with the syringe, or simply balance the egg-holder at a 45 degree above the bottle, letting it drip.
Super stoked that Adox is planning to get this one back as it used to be, nothing beats having a solid, dependable and extremely long lasting developer on hand.
(and I find that HC-110 gives really nice results in my negatives for printing too, no matter if it is 35mm or 120, grain and sharpness and contrast curve hasn't been anything that left anything missing at all over the years)

 

[npl]

Hi

It should now be plenty of examples of people using opened and half-empty bottles of the new HC-110 formula.

I refrained from buying it last year, when I had to replace my (thicker) HC-110, as I was finally able to finish the bottle.
Seeing how much less viscous it was just put me off, it is expensive (per bottle), and if it doesn't hold up the way the old stuff did, then it is a high risk of throwing money out the window. I really don't shoot that much, not enough to kill a bottle in a year, with a typical working strength at 1:32 (Dil B).

In the meantime, I have switched to Ilfotec HC, which has a proven track record, similar to the thicker HC-110 (at concentrate, from what I could find online).

What are your experiences with the "new" Kodak HC-110, 6 years down the line?

Why did they changed something that works and have been working since forever I wonder, it seems downright stupid, unless there is some economical motive here (shorter shelf life, more dev per film or something else).

I made this thread a while back : https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-hc-110-kept-surprisingly-well.210022/

About the syrup being difficult to handle and measure small quantities of : preparing a stock solution eliminate that issue, but it's surprinsingly not common practice at all among HC-110 users. See attached the relevant part of the j24 datasheet

 

[Helinophoto]

I made this thread a while back : https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-hc-110-kept-surprisingly-well.210022/

About the syrup being difficult to handle and measure small quantities of : preparing a stock solution eliminate that issue, but it's surprinsingly not common practice at all among HC-110 users. See attached the relevant part of the j24 datasheet

Thank you, it is good to know that the new stuff can keep for a good while, without any apparent (reported) sudden death/failure.
Pretty impressive that you had a stock solution that kept for that long as well, I would have thought it would die really quickly, once you mix stock.
I keep reading about people having issue with the syrup, I am not sure why that is, it was just naturally for me to get a few syringes (pharmacy) back in the day, I can pull out 12.5ml from the syrup with no issues at all. (no needle required).

I even sometimes "rinse" out any remainder drops in the syringe by pulling some of the water in my working solution into the syringe and squirt it out a couple of times, just to be sure I get every drop of developer out of the syringe.

 

[MattKing]

I can pull out 12.5ml from the syrup with no issues at all. (no needle required).

Many of us are/were using 6ml for each use.
And some adventurers are/were using less!
The smaller the quantity used, the more difficult it is to assure consistency.

 

[ant!]

Since my now 6 year old son had a lot of medications last year (one year of chemotherapy, luckily over now), I have now oral syringes in every size from 1 ml to probably 30 ml, in total I kept probably 5 or 6. These were given by the hospital and are the ones with the rubber o-ring, but with intense use (daily meds, not with my low chemical use), the scale indeed washes off. I threw all the duplicates out, otherwise I'd have maybe 50 or so... So, for my low development use, a few films per year, I am well covered.

I bought a bottle of HC-110 (which was the first time I used HC-110) when the news about a new version came out, maybe 2018 (?), it's Made in Germany, so I guess the old stuff. When people mention syrup-y, I somehow think of something thicker then what this is. Of course it's not watery, but still liquid enough. Maybe because I have a lot of maple syrup around (and a small family sugar shack in my partner's family), I compare it to maple syrup, and that is at least here in Quebec definitely thicker then the bottle of HC-110 I have...