A blended ferrocyanide print process

koraks

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Struggles with FAC purity immediately bring to mind the New Cyanotype process. I wonder if similarly there’s an opportunity to move from FAC to Ammonium Iron Oxalate.
Well, that's an interesting thought; I was trying some New Cyanotypes yesterday, but the sensitizer I had prepared a few months ago had died in the meantime and now throws down a lot of fog. I've never been able to get the stuff stable, to be honest. However, there's an alternative approach that @Raghu Kuvempunagar suggests for making these prints, which basically involves making a regular cyanotype and then developing it with a copper developer with ferricyanide added to it. Maybe that works with a New Cyanotype as well? Although the oxalate precipitate issue might spoil the broth (quite literally).

And otherwise there's the Simple Cyano option he mentions above. If I had had any iron nitrate, I would have given that a go today. I might order some.

Developer can be slowed down by adding glycerine to it.

Hm, that's interesting; I might give that a go, although I'm not complaining about the relatively quick development. I tend to prefer fast processes and this one is pretty fast, all considered. Exposures are quite short, too; the print I just showed was 100 seconds (it's a concentrated light source though).
Ammonium Chloride is optional as mentioned in OP. It needs to be used only if loose pigments are being formed. Use of Sodium Chloride is interesting, I need to think more about its role.

Yes, I noticed it was optional, but included it initially in most tests because of the buffering of the papers I used. This afternoon when biking home I figured I should try eliminating at least the additional ammonium, just to see if it helped any. It does seem to have made a positive difference in my case.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I've been following this thread with anticipation. I can't do anything until Copper Sulphate arrives, and by that time, I'll be on my way to Japan for a couple of months. So...it'll all have to wait. In the meantime, I'll continue to watch/read about your experiences/progress.
When I do get started, I'll probably give Revere Platinum a go. I also have heaps of Stonehenge, but that will definitely have to be acidified in Sulfamic Acid (of which I have tons!).
 

koraks

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Played 2018 with it

Hah, that's funny. I see you get the same fog that @Cor got and me as well initially. I also notice on the page you link to that you used Fabriano Accademia for a test. Coincidentally, I did a quick test yesterday on the same paper, and got a very decent print with little fog:
 
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@BJ68: I was unaware of your work and I went through your writeup to learn more about it (in English translation as I am not familiar with German). You seem to have a flair for doing interesting chemistry experiments!

The process @BJ68 has described in his writeup is very interesting and his prints very evidently contain both Copper Ferrocyanide (CF) and Prussian Blue (PB).

In my exploration to blend CF and PB, I designed and tested several ways to make prints that contain both CF and PB and arrived at the process described in OP. I'll discuss these in the rest of this note. I can post example prints in the future if there is interest. Each of the approaches has different complexity, tonal range, colour palette and aesthetic feel. Hopefully, the discussion will make it easy for all of us to understand how @BJ68's work relates to mine and equally importantly, how my work (OP) is different from his.

#1: A rather naive approach to make a print containing both CF and PB is to first make a Cyanotype print and then add a thin layer of CF stain on the top of the print using Cor's copper printing process. This adds a bit of warmth to the blue image noticeably so in the highlights. As long as the CF stain is reasonably thin, the print can be interesting. If one is creative, one can add the CF stain selectively to local areas.However, this approach doesn't blend CF and BF imagewise.

#2: Another approach is to make a two layered print. First make the Cuprotype print (Patterson's process or Cor's Copper Print). When the processed print is dry, coat with Cyanotype sensitiser, register with the negative and make a Cyanotype print on top of Cuprotype. This is a flexible approach that gives a lot of control to the printmaker to vary the degree of blending. However, this approach is more complicated and time consuming than other approaches.

#3-a: A somewhat more refined approach than #1 is add small amounts of Cor's Copper Print sensitiser to Classic Cyanotype sensitiser. This produces blue prints with warm highlights and the results can be good if processed properly. However, the coated paper starts fogging in the dark as soon as it is dry. To avoid excessive general CF stain, the coated paper must be exposed and processed quickly.

@BJ68's approach is essentially same as #3-a except that the two sensitisers are coated sequentially instead of mixing them together before coating. I've tested that both ways of coating produce identical results. Here's how #3-a coated paper appears after exposure.




@BJ68 uses water development (no acid in the water) which results in very substantial loss of pigments giving an interesting faded look that works could work nicely for some subjects. Here is a #3-a process result with water development that shows the faded look:




If the exposed paper is instead developed in dilute Citric Aicd, loss of pigments is less and overall tonality is better.


#3-b: We can work the other way around too, i.e. add small amounts of Classic Cyanotype sensitiser to Cor's Copper Print sensitiser. This produces purplish brown prints which can be interesting for some subjects. The coated paper fogs quickly though.

#4: A middle ground can be reached by using equal volume of Classic Cyanotype sensitiser and Cor's Copper Print sensitiser. This approach also suffers from the curse of stain like #3-a and #3-b, but can give nice results when developed in dilute Sulphamic Acid. However, the results can be unpredictable and vary significantly with the amount of Sulphamic Acid used in the developer and the time spent in the developer.

I may make a separate post on #4 in the future if I can tweak it further to get consistently good results.


#5: A very different approach from all the above approaches is to make a Cyanotype exposure and add CF imagewise to the printed-out image via development in a Copper complex. This has the potential to blend PF and CF throughout the exposure scale, produce higher DMax and longer tonal scale than Classic Cyanotype. OP is the culmination of my efforts to realise this goal and solve a number of quirky problems that arose on the way to making successful prints.

Further, as #5 works well with brush development, it opens the possibility to selectively develop local areas in the print leading to interesting artistic possibilities.


All the approaches discussed above offer tools to make interesting prints. Having worked with all these approaches, I prefer #5 (OP) over others for the reasons I have discussed. I hope OP and this discussion will be of help to artists in this forum who want to try this process and make interesting prints.
 

Jan de Jong

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one can add the CF stain selectively
Thank you Raghu for the good overview and your experiments. I have been making prints all weekend inspired by all of this. Indeed found that I can use different concentrations and selectively tone partially parts of the exposed image and leave certain parts intact with the Prussian blue color. And then do the rinse with water after. So it is a toning - coloring before development.

My question to you and @koraks is how do your prints look after a few days. My experience from the past is that copper darkens over the next days to month. Therefore applying just with brush or only the parts that need a color will help keeping the paper from staining.
 

koraks

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My question to you and @koraks is how do your prints look after a few days.

It's literally early days, but they have been darkening, especially the cyanotype part, which is to be expected. The copper image seems quite stable so far although I'd have to measure it to be sure. The fog on the copper image tends to show up in it's full "glory" once the print is dry, but doesn't seem to be getting much worse after that point.

I'm still intending to figure out how to minimize the fog on the copper image; I'm quite sure I've not yet gotten to the bottom of that bit.
 

Cor

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Have been printing this weekend, and would like to share my experiences. First; a big big thank to Raghu for opening up this new road !

  • I have been testing 2 papers I have: Simili Japon (https://www.vanbeekart.nl/papier-karton-tekenpapier-simili-japon/7987/)
  • Schut drawing paper (https://www.everycolor.nl/webshop/s...kenblok-a4-en-a3-180-gram-70-vel.html#consent)
  • Both papers stain when the developer is applied straight to the paper, this can be reduced (Simili) or get rid of (Schut) by using the developer 1+3 for 3 minutes
  • When the developer is applied on top of the Cyano there is considerable B+F, ie a stepwedge is not paper white in the higher steps
  • Adding 10% NaCl to the developer helps a lot on Schut (but not completly!) no difference on Simili.
  • The balance Cyano Cupro is heavy towards the Cupro side, ie only the deep shadows are dark blue.
  • Scanning these prints was not so straightforward, the highlights look brighter than they are, and is not easy to match the warm brown/orange tone.
  • In the stock solution of the AFC and ammonium chloride the ammonium chloride precipitated out as a rather nice fern shaped crystal,it was hard to get the ammonium chloride in solution I needed heating and stirring. Next time I leave it out since it did not do much on the papers I use (and also Koraks reported the same).
Below are 2 examples: the first is from a Pyro processed Fomapan 100 8*10 negative, although it is nice in his own way, subtilities are lost, and this image benefits from other printing options I think.(coating could be better, I used 2ml on this one). Print on Schut paper, no NaCL in developer.



Second image is from a digital IR file shot with an deep red filter printed on a big negative (thanks Korak)
Print on Schut paper, NaCL in developer. (12 min exposure)



Best,

Cor
 

Debanjan

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I got to know about the process from Raghavendra a couple of days back and ran some quick tests following the instructions in the OP. I see great possibilities and flexibility in the process. Paper used was Canson Montval -- I pre-soaked it in a Citric Acid bath to get rid of the alkaline buffers. Exposure used was ~60% more compared to Cyanotype exposure time for my setup.

1. The print after exposure




2. After brushing the sensitizer



3. After acid wash and water bath


4. After the print dried completely and in daylight
 

koraks

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@Debanjan that's brilliant! What I find remarkable is that you seem to be getting the same tones/hues as @Raghu Kuvempunagar , in particular in the print-out image just after exposure as well as the print during development. Interestingly, the finished print looks closer to what I've been getting, although I feel my results are overall more magenta, while yours and Raghu's lean more towards yellow/orange. Maybe I should pick up some Montval to see if it's the paper that does this.
 

Debanjan

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@koraks - yes, trying with Montval may help but I also got similar results with HPR .. no acid pre-wash was done since it is a buffer free paper.. the coating was not very good (some smudges here and there) but the outputs are similar.
 

nmp

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This probably won't work because if you print cuprotype first. Cyanotype sensitizer will replace copper with iron as the second sensitizer is coated - not unlike the iron toning of cuprotype as discussed by @fgorga here.

To combine the two, cyanotype should be the first layer, then cuprotype as I showed here.

:Niranjan.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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Chemicals arrived earlier than expect, so I was able to do a little bit of dabbling. I found out that I had to increase my Cyanotype exposure time by 30%, before I got something decent. Too much exposure and the Cyanotype blue dominated. To little, and it was the other way around and no detail. I also had to add Ammonium Chloride to Part A, as the Cyanotype was lifting off from the paper. I diluted the developer 1+5 (5ml + 25ml water), and brush it on using a foam brush. Letting the print sit for 30 min, or just rinsing it right away, showed zero difference in tone. I'm using Revere Platinum. It really didn't take me long to get to something kind of sort of decent... Anyways, here is the best one I could pull...




 
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